VO2 Max For Mountaineers

In this podcast we chat about VO2 max for mountaineers, explore its relevance when training for mountaineering, and answer a few common questions on the topic.

Episode Chapters:

0:07 
Introduction to VO2 Max
1:15 
Understanding VO2 Max
2:26 
The Importance of Aerobic Capacity
6:43 
Situations Requiring Higher Intensity
7:11 
VO2 Max in Endurance Context
9:44 
Testing Your VO2 Max
15:11 
Trainability of VO2 Max
18:22 
Improving Your VO2 Max
22:10 
Aerobic Power Intervals for Mountaineers
24:21 
Rapid Fire Questions on VO2 Max
28:00 
Summary of Key Points
30:17 
Future Topics and Conclusion

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Check out the Online Summit Program: https://summitstrength.com.au/mountaineer

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Is VO2 Max Important For Mountaineers?

​Episode Transcript:

[0:00] Alright, hello, hello, ladies and gentlemen. So in today's episode,

[0:03] we are talking about VO2 max for mountaineers. And we're going to be exploring a little bit on this subject, just talking through a few common questions, and just giving a few insights into this particular topic, which seems to come up a lot. Because in all honesty, the topic of VO2 max is a little bit weird in the world of training for mountaineering. I see people arguing about it online. I see people claiming it's like the best thing in the world and should really focus on this. And like, it's really, really, really, really, really super relevant for mountaineers. And the flip side, I see people go on the complete opposite side and saying, oh, you know, it's got nothing to do with mountaineering and you should ignore it or whatever it may be. And I see genuine arguments about it, which is just strange because in all honesty, I feel like the mountaineering community does, and also I guess the endurance training community as a whole does have a tendency to kind of get into the weeds of things a little bit too much and kind of miss the forest for the trees as the saying goes. And I don't think this whole conversation needs to be very complicated or divisive. So, today...

[1:09] I'm going to give my two cents on this. And we're going to be giving a bit of

[1:12] an overview on VO2max and how it relates to mountaineering. And it's not designed to get super deep and get in the weeds and get super sciencey or whatever it might be, but it's just to kind of give an overview, bring some common sense to this topic, and hopefully stop a few people from having to worry about this so much or really trying to think deeply when it can be pretty simple.

[1:32] So first of all, what is VO2max? If you don't know what it is, VO2 max is the maximal amount of oxygen your body can use during intense exercise. It is not the maximum amount of power you can put out through exercise in short, sharp bursts, but it's the maximal amount of oxygen your body can use during intense exercise, meaning the maximal level that your aerobic energy system can work at, basically. It is measured in millimeters of oxygen per kilogram of body weight per minute, which is an absolute mouthful. But when you sort of see people saying, hey, my VO2 max is this number or this number or this number, that's kind of what it's measuring. Now, it is often talked about as being the gold standard measure of aerobic fitness, of performance, and also health as well when it comes down to exercise. And a lot of people talk about it all around the world.

[2:27] But let's hone in on mountaineering. Is VO2 max important for mountaineering.

[2:34] When it comes down to it, VO2max is valuable, but it's not the be-all, end-all. Essentially, when we're looking at the aerobic energy system. Now, the aerobic energy system is the single most important energy system for mountaineers. It is what we are producing most of our energy through during mountaineering expeditions, during endurance performance. It is the single most important thing for a mountaineer. Essentially, when we are looking at aerobic energy system, there are two different measures of this that we can look at. Now, on one side of things, we have VO2 max, which is the maximal rate your body can sustain while still using oxygen as that fuel source. So it's the very, very, very top level of our aerobic energy system that we can sustain. Now, this is also known as aerobic power is another word for it. And you've probably heard me using the phrase aerobic power before.

[3:26] Now, on the flip side, we have what's called aerobic capacity. Now, aerobic capacity isn't looking at that top level of the aerobic energy system. Instead, our aerobic capacity is just our ability to go and go and go and go and go and produce energy and withstand fatigue at a sort of a sub-maximal rate. So, it's not that maximal rate that the energy system can sustain, but it's a bit lower than that. We've got VO2 max or aerobic power and aerobic capacity. Now, where we often get a little bit confused is sometimes people will use these two things interchangeably, and they will say VO2 max is a measure of your aerobic capacity.

[4:07] They're not exactly the same. Yes, they definitely have impact on each other. Yes, they're closely related because they're both our aerobic energy system, but they're not exactly the same thing. And this is kind of where, you know, sometimes people get a little bit confused. Now, when it comes down to mountaineering, put this into context, without a doubt, there is no argument in the world that aerobic capacity is the single most important aspect of fitness for mountaineers. And there's absolutely no doubt. And I don't think anyone really argue that it is much more important than VO2 max. Why is that? Well, mountaineering, when it comes down to it, it isn't a race. It's not a speed sport where we're pushing our speed for long periods of time, but it is slow, steady work. We are never really trying to push that top level of aerobic energy system and just sit at that and sustain it for as long as we can in the situation if we were racing and trying to beat our times or whatever it may be, but typically we're a little bit below that and we're just grinding out time. Aerobic capacity for mountaineers is much more relevant and much more important. And there are plenty of mountaineers out there who don't have a particularly high VO2 max in the grand scheme of things who perform almost at an elite level.

[5:28] But with that being said, this is sometimes where people take it just a little bit too far because they are so bullish on the whole concept of aerobic capacity. They're so keen on it. They're so trying to get their point across that they start saying or implying that VO2 max isn't important or isn't valuable. But I don't think that's quite true either because obviously mountaineering, it isn't all that smooth sailing where it's just slow and steady. There are instances where we do need to sustain slightly higher intensity and we need to sustain that higher output and ideally sustain that higher output without just knocking over and just purely relying on our anaerobic energy systems. So, you know, this could be like a particularly steep section where you're like, look, this is tough. I've got to do four, five, six, eight, 10, 15 minutes of climbing and it is quite high intensity and I got to sustain that. Or maybe there's tough terrain, you're in particularly deep snow or whatever it may be. Or maybe there's a weather window and you're like, oh my gosh, we've been cruising along, but we've only got an hour or two where we have to make this distance, so we've got to bump up that intensity. Or even emergency situations where something goes wrong and maybe you've got to carry someone off a mountain or carry their gear or whatever it may be.

[6:38] There are obviously situations where extra intensity is needed in the mountaineering context. So having a higher VO2 max is probably going to be beneficial in these situations. Again, it's not the number one priority. It isn't going to be the make or break for your mountaineering.

[6:54] But to say that it doesn't have any value or high VO2 max doesn't correlate with anything in mountaineering, yeah, I don't know. I think that's a little bit too far.

[7:03] But now you might be thinking, you might be like, okay, well, if it isn't the priority for mountaineers, if it's not the number one thing,

[7:10] why do I just see this all the time? Why does everywhere I look, I seem to see people talking about VO2max. And realistically, this is just because as a general whole, zooming out from mountaineering and just talking about endurance performance and general health. As a general whole, people love to use VO2max, and it is called the gold standard of aerobic fitness because of a few reasons. Number one, it is a measure, which is relatively, it's a number, I should say, which is relatively easy to measure. Meaning there are clinical ways of doing this. You can go in a lab, you can test this, and it's very, very reliable. It's very, very easy to get a measure of this. And so there's a lot of studies on this using VO2max. When you look in aerobic capacity, like how do you test aerobic capacity? There are obviously different things out there, but it's a little bit more flexible. VO2max is a very, very, very easy to test thing.

[8:04] Number two, when they're looking at studies, it does have very good connections to health and longevity. And essentially, because they have these studies where they can look at this exact number and look at all these different things, there are things where people can confidently say people who have a higher VO2 max probably have positive health outcomes and positive longevity outcomes. It also has good connections to the typical endurance sports. Mountaineering is a bit of an outlier when it comes down to the endurance world because a lot of endurance sports, if not most, do have that racing aspect there. Cycling, skiing, running, swimming even. A lot of that is coming out of the racing world. Yes, a lot of people do it recreationally, but a lot of the studies or whatever it may be is looking at how can we improve our performance when we're trying to push our speed over long periods of time. And VO2 max also has good connections to other sports, things like team sports or whatever it may be. And there's some good value on that. So when we're just looking at like a general number and saying, Hey, if we just want to look at a number and say, if we improve this, it will probably help our health and longevity. If we improve this, it'll probably help our sporting performance. If we improve this, it'll probably help our endurance sports. It can be a pretty handy number.

[9:14] But mountaineering, it is a bit of an outlier. It isn't quite as general. Mountaineering is obviously not the same as health and longevity. Mountaineering is obviously not the same as many endurance sports because we're not chasing speed. We're not racing or whatever it may be. And it's definitely not the same as other sports of team sports, whatever it may be, where we're kind of stop, start. So that's typically why we see it so much, just because it's a really, really, really good number to get, an easy and reliable and valid number to get. And it's very relevant in a lot of things and where a lot of the study and research is.

[9:44] But a mountaineering, a little bit of an outline.

[9:48] So now that we sort of said VO2 max is valuable, but it's not the be all end all. What if you're like, okay, cool. Well, that makes sense. I'm doing all my low, nice, low, long, steady work. I'm working on my aerobic capacity. I'm nailing them. And I kind of want to improve VO2 max. I feel like that'd be useful. I want to do that. Like, how do I go about this? Well, let's explore it. First of all, how do you test this? because a lot of people want to start with a test or whatever it may be, or at least get a number of where they're at and know where they're going. How can you test your VO2 Max as a Mountaineer? Lots of different ways to go about it. Some are good, some are not so good. The most accessible one that a lot of people have these days are like trackers, just like having a sports watch or whatever it may be will give you a prediction of your VO2 Max and they'll say, hey, your VO2 Max is this. These things, they're not very accurate.

[10:41] I wouldn't really rely on them to give you a measure of being good or bad or poor or elite or whatever it may be. These things may be like trackers, maybe give you like a general vibe over time. So if you like train for four weeks and your number went up, probably a good thing.

[10:56] But as an accurate measure, these things aren't great.

[11:00] The next thing you can look at, which is quite accessible for a lot of people, is doing a self-administered test. So essentially, this involves you doing some type of exercise assessment, which you can do the assessment. You can get a certain number. You can put it on like a table or some type of measure or some type of calculator, and it will try to predict your VO2 max. So there's a few like simple examples here. There's like the Cooper test where we can basically run as far as you can over 12 minutes. And you have a 12 minute timer. You run as far as you literally can and get the amount of distance you do. You put into a calculator. It gives you a predicted number, which can be okay or there's like the 2,000 meter row where you get on like a rowing erg and you do 2,000 meters and again see how long it takes you it gives you a predictor or there's like walking tests where you do incrementally faster or more inclined walking and again depending on how it goes it can work you know this type of stuff it's definitely accessible to a lot of people it's doable you know there's debate whether like how accurate it is like especially if you're not used to the type of exercise. So, for example, if you are not a big runner and you went and tried to do a 12-minute run, it's not going to be accurate at all because you're not going to know how to pace yourself, certain things are going to get fatigued, whatever it may be. Or even if you are only used to running at one pace and just long, steady runs, and then you try to push it for 12 minutes, it may not particularly be accurate. So, yeah, it can work.

[12:27] They can be doable, but they're not the be-all, end-all. Realistically, the only way to get a really, truly accurate measure of your VO2 max is do like a lab test where you literally go into a sports science clinic or a lab or whatever it may be.

[12:41] And you do a specific test where essentially you'll go on like a bike or a treadmill, you'll put this big gas mask on, and essentially you'll go running, walking, or cycling. And stage by stage, it'll get harder and harder and harder and harder. And they'll push you to the absolute limit until you just cannot do any more. And essentially all the oxygen, carbon dioxide, breathing out and all of that, that gets measured and kind of gives us a good insight into where you're at. And they'll give you a very particular number at the end and say, this is what you are. And this is very very accurate this is the test that tests it um but it does have drawbacks you know obviously cost money obviously got to go in there um and some people again mountaineers who are truly looking at um endurance stuff you know some people just don't work at that intensity so maybe it can be a little bit tricky there realistically what i would recommend for for mountaineers when they're looking at vo2 max most mountaineers you don't need a lab test like i know a lot of people want to do it, whatever it may be, but it's not necessary. If you did want a rough gauge and kind of like a number to work off, do a self-administered test in a modality that you're experienced in. So, if you're a runner, do the Cooper test. If you're happy on the rower, do that rowing test. If not, maybe find like a walking-based test or whatever it may be. Or if you're a cyclist, there's probably, there's a bunch of ones you can do in like the WAP bike or whatever.

[14:03] Find something that you're experienced in just to kind of get a number to work off. It may not be 100% accurate, but it'll give you a predictor and you can be like, okay, cool, we can work with this. If you really, really, really, really do love numbers, and maybe you're the type of person where you're like, you know what, I want to know this, so then this can therefore inform me in certain things in my training or create certain things in my program, then you probably do want to get a lab test. Again, I don't think it's necessary. I don't think using VO2max to inform a mountaineer's training is particularly necessary, but... If that's you, you know, go right ahead. And just to be clear, if you don't really care about VO2 max, like I know I'm talking about this a lot, but if you don't really care about this, you don't really need to do any testing on it.

[14:48] It's interesting for some people. Some people want to look at it, but it's not necessary. If you are wanting to test your readiness or your fitness or whatever it may be, there are much more relevant tests a mountaineer can look at to look at their readiness or their fitness or whatever it may be, which may be more down towards that aerobic capacity side. And I'll go into that in future episodes. But for now, yeah, just to be clear.

[15:11] So next up, let's cover one thing. How trainable is VO2 max? I've heard that VO2 max is mainly genetic. This is a question that comes up a lot, see a lot of people talking about it. Some people will sort of say, and especially people who are kind of, I guess, have a history or background or work in a more sort of elite athletes or whatever, they will sort of say that VO2 max is mainly impacted by genetics. And they'll make this type of statement. And yeah, there's a lot of impact here, but there's just a lot of nuance that often gets missed with this type of statement. Your VO2 max, your ceiling of improving, your natural VO2 max, whatever it may be, is significantly impacted from your genetics. Meaning some people will have a higher potential to get that VO2 max higher over the years. Some people will have lower. Some people naturally sit at a higher VO2 max. Some people naturally sit at a lower one.

[16:04] And a lot of the conversation around this of saying, hey, when people say it's mainly impacted by genetics, you can't really improve it very much or whatever it may be, a lot of that conversation is really coming out of that elite endurance world of looking at highly trained elite athletes who've been training for years and years and years already or whatever it may be, or they're kind of that top level of training. And ultimately, the more highly trained you are.

[16:28] The more elite you are, the less potential for change there is. Because probably if you've been training for years and years and years, doing really solid training, you probably kind of push that up very, very high. And there isn't a huge amount of wiggle room in regards to improvement because you may be closer to that genetic ceiling for yourself. But saying this, most mountaineers are not elite athletes. And yes, you're doing crazy things. Yes, a lot of mountaineers are doing some really, really, really good training, but we cannot consider the majority of the mountaineering population to kind of up at that level. I would sort of say 5% of mountaineers may be up there. That's a random number, but most mountaineers are not that type of person. For most people, it is perfectly possible to increase your VO2 max with training. Like it's perfectly possible to bump it up if that's something you want to do. Now, the next question a lot of people say is like, okay, what about age? Can older mountaineers improve their VO2 max? What if I'm 50 years old or 60 years old? Can I improve that?

[17:30] Ultimately, as we age, our VO2 max will decline naturally, natural part of aging. As we age, the potential to improve VO2 max probably decreases. So, you know, if we were looking at doing five years of really crazy hard training and doing exactly the right things, you can probably get a higher VO2 max in your 20s and then you would if you did the same training in your 50s. You know, that's pretty basic. However, it is perfectly possible to increase your VO2 max at any age if you're doing the right training. It may not be to the degree.

[18:02] As if you're in your 20s, but perfectly possible. So, next up, if you were in this situation, you're a mountaineer and you're like, okay, cool. I'm doing all my aerobic capacity training. I'm doing my basics. I'm getting my foundations down.

[18:18] I'm interested in VO2 max. I feel like I kind of want to improve it. I'm going to layer this on top of what I'm doing and just see what I can do to improve this number, what training is best for improving VO2max? Ultimately, again, VO2max can be improved in many, many ways. If you are untrained or if you're a beginner, so say you're just getting into training, you can improve your VO2max by pretty much doing any type of cardio exercise. If you just do some low intensity stuff, aerobic capacity stuff, If you're untrained, that will improve your VO2 max. If you do moderate intensity and just run a little bit quicker or whatever it may be, that will improve it. If we do high intensity intervals or sprint intervals, whatever it may be, literally anything on the untrained side of stuff, if you do it consistently and progressively, it will improve your VO2 max. It's the same thing with strength. Like, you know, if you're untrained, you can do anything and you will improve strength pretty much.

[19:16] Yeah. Obviously, that's untrained people. As we get beyond untrained and you've kind of like done some decent training, you've strung together six months or a year or whatever it may be, and you're like, you know, got a good foundation, we kind of want to get a bit more targeted here. If you're already doing a base aerobic capacity training, and I will emphasize again, you want to be doing this always, never neglecting it, whatever it may be, probably the best way for you to improve your VO2 max is doing some higher intensity training. Now you can, there is decent evidence to show that you can improve this by doing like short intervals. So maybe doing, you know, 30 second or 15 second intervals or whatever it may be and doing that high intensity interval training or sprint protocols where we're doing like, you know, 20, 30 seconds, but having very, very, very long rest and really jacking up the intensity, but having super long rest. There's decent evidence to show that that type of stuff can improve it. But probably if you're looking at the best way to do this is probably looking at longer intervals. So essentially doing high intensity interval training, but doing intervals of two minutes or more. Now, the idea behind that, and this kind of makes sense, is because when we're looking at energy systems, if we're doing high intensity interval training below two minutes, there is going to be.

[20:33] Quite a bit more reliance on our anaerobic energy systems. When we get two minutes or more, that's kind of the stage where our anaerobic energy systems begin to like, they've kind of had enough. They're not really contributing a huge amount anymore. So when we're pushing that higher intensity, it's predominantly going to be aerobic. So that completely makes sense when we're talking about training the topmost level of our aerobic energy system. Now, you often hear me on this podcast talking about aerobic power intervals, which kind of fall into this. This is one of my favorite interval structures for mountaineers, not so much because it improves the odontary max specifically, but I just think it's just a really good way of going about things. And essentially these aerobic power intervals involve doing high intensity intervals of anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 minutes. So two and a half minutes or three minutes or three and a half minutes, really, really, really jacking up the intensity and sustaining that for that amount of time. Then having a rest of, I typically use about 90 seconds. There's a bit of variance there, but that's kind of what I use.

[21:32] Or if you like this stuff or whatever it may be, you've probably heard of the Norwegian 4x4, which is a really, really like, I guess, well-talked about structure here where they do four minutes of really, really, really, really, really high intensity, three minutes of rest, and do that four times. And again, those four minutes, you can see it's just jacking up that intensity beyond those two minutes and working pretty well. Now, probably when you're looking at like longer intervals, five, six, seven, eight minute intervals, that stuff can be really, really good, but it may not be quite as effective for VO2 max purely for the fact that you're going to start to drop the intensity, sustain that type of output.

[22:11] So two, two and a half, three and a half, four minutes, probably around the speed spot. I'm.

[22:22] Beyond all of this, I like those aerobic power intervals for mountaineers, and they're probably a good way of improving VO2 max. But I think even taking away from that type of number, and not even thinking about VO2 max specifically, I think there is a lot of value of doing small amounts of this type of training for mountaineers anyway, of just getting your body used to sustaining these higher outputs, getting comfortable with this, and a bunch of other things. So I do like this type of stuff for mountaineers in small doses. So when should you be applying this type in your training if you're a mountaineer? Well, technically, and you'll see most people say this online, technically, if you want to get the most benefits out of this type of training, it should probably be coming off the back of having a really, really, really good, solid amount of time doing aerobic capacity work, making sure you have a really good foundation, a really good aerobic base. So therefore, when you step up this intensity, you are going to be in a place where you can just jump into it. The body's going to be able to sustain it, recover in between and get the most out of this. Technically, that's probably true. Practically, in all honesty, you can probably apply this as much time as you want, as long as you are not neglecting your lower intensity work. That is always going to be the priority, and I want to make that clear again. You can probably apply this anytime. Sure, technically, you'll probably get much more out of this if you do have a good aerobic base, but there's no harm in doing this type of stuff early on in your training. As long as you're doing your low intensity stuff, it's going to be beneficial.

[23:46] It's just you won't be able to work quite as hard and technically probably not see as dramatic improvement on your VO2 max or as dramatic improvement, but it's still going to be beneficial for other reasons. So I'm a little bit different on that kind of thing. I'll apply this type of stuff wherever we feel like it's necessary, wherever we feel like it's needed, as opposed to holding off 8, 12, 16 weeks before applying this, for me at least. So that's kind of the gist of it. None of that's too complicated. That's all pretty straightforward, and hopefully that makes sense. I don't think it's a black and white thing. I think VO2max is useful.

[24:21] Improve it if you want. Probably give you some benefits, but it's not the be all end of. So, there you go. Now, before I wrap things up, I'm just going to go through a few rapid fire, I guess, frequently asked questions I have seen on this topic, just to really, really quickly cover a few bits and pieces.

[24:39] Some people ask, what happens to VO2 max at altitude? Is it relevant more for if you're getting to super high altitude? Anytime we go to altitude, our VO2 max drops. The higher we go up, the VO2 max will get less and less and less. Now, is this going to make any practical difference to your training and preparations? It's going to make a difference to how you approach things or whatever it may be. If you're going to 8,000 meters as opposed to 4,000 meters, not really, probably not. The same things are going to apply. Nail your aerobic capacity work, do small things of your aerobic power work, it's going to be the same. Does your VO2max predict summit success on peaks like Everest, Denali, those big mountain climbs? No. There's no evidence to show that a higher VO2max is a good predictor of success on mountaineering trips or a predictor of altitude sickness. Can VO2max compensate for poor acclimatization? No. Don't skimp on your acclimatization.

[25:34] It's not going to make a difference. VO2 max may be beneficial, but it's not going to make up for poor acclimatization. Does VO2 max matter for more for if you're doing the fast and lighter sense rather than expedition style climbs? Well, technically, the higher the intensity of exercise is, the more relevant VO2 max is. So if you're doing these fast and light ascents, and if you're really, really, really kind of almost redlining it as quick as you can to sustain, yeah, it's going to get more relevant and we probably want a bit more emphasis on training here. But even in those situations, aerobic capacity is still going to be the priority because you are going to be going for hours and hours and hours. So if you are doing these fast and light ascents, it makes sense to maybe do a tiny little bit more, but just, you know, it's still not going to change the reliance and the priority of aerobic capacity.

[26:23] Would training differ from a mountaineer who has a low vo2 max versus a high vo2 max no not really because regardless of where you stand on your vo2 max as a mountaineer every single mountaineer is going to want to focus on aerobic capacity is the number one priority every single mountaineer whether you have a low vo2 max high vo2 max is probably going to get some value out of doing some higher sustained output at some stage in the training everyone is going to get some some value out of working on specific demands of your expedition, building up your elevation, building up pack tolerance, sled tolerance, or whatever it may be, or specific things you need as an individual, working on particular injuries or whatever it is.

[27:07] VO2 max is never really going to dictate how the training changes or what you're focusing on or whatever it may be in the mountaineering context. There may be certain sports or certain coaches who do this, but realistically for mountaineers, it's not something that should be guiding what your training is doing. And do elite mountaineers always have high VO2 max values? And I think I covered this before. Not so much. You know, when you're looking at the elite and the really, really good stuff, they're all pretty good. Like no one's going out there and they can barely like, you know, they're in the really, really sitting on the couch level, but they're all pretty good because they are elite athletes. But if you compare them to like the everyday person, yes, they have high, higher values. But if you compare them to other sports, like a cyclist or a skier or something like that, who are racing, you know, on average, they don't all stack up to that level. So again.

[28:00] So with that being said, a little bit of a summary. I honestly do believe the whole discussion on VO2 Max is a bit weird. That's why it took me so long to talk about this on this episode, because I don't think it's that complicated, personally. And I've spent 30 minutes talking about something that I don't think is complicated, so there you go. But just summarizing, is VO2 Max beneficial for mountaineers? Yes, probably. Is it ever going to be the main priority in your training? No. Do you need to test and track it? No. You can if you want to. It's not needed. It's interesting to track if you love that type of stuff. It's probably not going to make a massive difference to your training. Do you need to worry about it? Probably not. What should a mountaineer worry about first? Well, if you're doing a fitness test and trying to get a gauge of kind of where you're at, do something aerobic capacity-based. Do an extended step test or go on a long hike and judge that or whatever it may be. Do something that's more extended, which is going to suss that out. If you are trying to find a measure to figure out if you're ready for a climb or not, VO2 max isn't going to be a good measure. So more reliably think, okay, what can I do to get as close to as possible the demands of my trip? Can I hit my metrics? Can I get out and do a hike with the max pack weight or the max sled weight that I need for the equivalent amount of time? Can I nail the amount of elevation at the speed I need with the pack weight I want? Those types of things.

[29:25] Or if you're looking for something to track your progress over time, because the VO2 max is nice, we can watch that number going up. What is a better way to track progress? Well, have those metrics of readiness. Make sure you have a long-term plan to say, you know what, in two weeks or three weeks before I go on my expedition, I'm confident that I'm going to hit all of these metrics. Have a plan to build up with that, and then reference a plan. You should know four months out whether you're on track to get where you need to be or not. You should know six months out. You should know three months out. If you have a rough plan and a rough draft and you can follow that and see where you're going, that's probably a better measure of progress. Obviously, it's not as neat and tiny as a nice number that's much more relevant for a mountaineer. With that being said, I think I'm going to wrap things up there. Talk for 30 minutes on a subject that I said didn't really need a huge amount of talking about, so there you go.

[30:17] But either way, in future episode, I'm going to just dive into these kind of measures of readiness a little bit more instead of which said, hey, VO2 max isn't super relevant here. What else can you do? I very briefly touched on it just then. I'll do a full episode, I think, in the next episode just to cover it all a bit more detail. With that being said, thank you for listening. If you were a mountaineer, you're curious about what you should be doing with your training to be in the best possible position for the mountains. You're curious about what you should do to improve your cardio, what you should do to improve your endurance, what you should do to improve your resilience, whatever it may be, I would love to chat with you. If you want to find out a little bit more about our online personal training for mountaineers, you can go to summitstrength.com.au slash mountaineer and check out the information there. So if you want to check it out, that's summitstrength.com.au slash mountaineer and you can have a look there. So with that being said, thank you for listening. Hope you've enjoyed it. Hope you got a bit out of it and we'll talk to you very soon. Bye.