Training For Everest - Interview With Michael

​In this episode, I interview Summit Strength graduate Michael. Inside, we discuss how he trained and prepared over a multi-year period for his long-term goal of successfully summiting Mt. Everest. 

​Episode Transcript:

[0:00] Right, hello, hello, ladies and gentlemen. So in today's episode, we are talking to Summit Strength graduate Michael, who has recently come back

[0:09] from a successful expedition to Summit Mount Everest. Now in this episode, he talks about his multi-year and multi-climb journey towards this long-term goal, where he trained, he prepared,

[0:23] he learned, he skilled up, and ultimately got himself to conquering this once-in-a-lifetime dream. In this episode, we explore a little bit about his training, about his preparations, about his lessons, and talk a little bit about his trip as well. A very, very informative and interesting episode for anyone who's aspiring for some big mountains in the future. So with that being said, let's get into it. All right. Hello, hello, Michael, and a big welcome to the show. Great to have you on. I'm really, really looking forward to having a bit of a chat today.

[0:56] Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me. So to kick things off, do you just want to give us a little bit of a rundown around who you are, where you're from, what do you do, and what is your background in mountaineering? Sure. Sounds good. My name is Michael Kirby. Like I said, I'm from Newfoundland, Canada. We're an island on the very east coast of Canada. I'm a self-employed businessman. I have my own business that I work at and as far as my background in mountaineering is concerned I had absolutely no background to be honest until late 2019 when I decided that I was going to no longer dream about Mount Everest but I was actually going to try and climb Mount Everest so I made the decision back then in late 2019 that like I said it was it was something I had always wanted to do but it was only just a dream at that point and at that point I had zero experience I think I might have gone hiking once or twice in my whole life up to that point so yeah it was quite a change once I made the decision to go down this road.

[2:05] Yeah absolutely and then when you were sitting there and going down that road obviously we'll be diving into you know the the Everest expedition um in quite a bit in a little bit but but talk me through that that journey from 29 2019 till this most recent expedition like what did that look like what did you sort of do how did that sort of play out, Sure. So when I was younger, I was always a pretty high-level athlete. I was a soccer player. So at that time, fitness was never an issue for me. Weight gain certainly was never an issue. But in 2021, I blew out my knee. And after a couple of years of trying to get back into soccer, I finally just realized I had to retire.

[2:50] And so at that point, without the physical activity, I tended to put on considerable amount of weight and I had very little motivation or drive to exercise or do any real physical activity. So when it did come time in 2019 to make this decision to go into mountaineering, it was even a little bit more far-fetched because I believe I was just a touch under 300 pounds at that point and doing no physical activity. So when I first started, I was really flying blind uh I knew I had to start hiking so I kind of picked that up a little bit I do a little bit of a on a work on a treadmill here and there I did a couple of spin classes but, I was really really treading water in the beginning I didn't really know have any idea what I was doing um and that kind of led me right up to finding you that's kind of when And I kind of started to get some direction around the training's concern. So I think I gave you a call in early 2021, I believe, when I first gave you the call. And that was when things started to take shape. I had some direction at that point. And then, like I say, without any real background in mountaineering, I didn't know what I needed to do. So you kind of really laid the groundwork for me. And that was where things started.

[4:12] Absolutely. So, let's dive into that a little bit more then. So, you know, as we sort of started working together there, like what types of what did the sort of training look like? How was a little bit different to what you had been doing previously? And then what were the specific milestones you had you set yourself in the lead up of the other of these expeditions? Absolutely. So when I gave you the first, when I first reached out to you, I had always known that the first step in this mountaineering journey was going to have to be a learning experience. I knew I had to learn the background, the skills I needed in order to do these things. So I knew that there was a, I had a, in my mind, it was an introduction to mountaineering course, uh, offered on Mount Rainier. And my plan was June of 2022 was to tackle that. So when I signed up with you, it was early 20, uh, 2021. So I had a little over a year, I guess, of training to get me ready for Rainier. And in the beginning, I remember it, the training looked very,

[5:19] very different from anything I'd done before. It was very specialized at least in my mind it was especially around the strengthening of the legs and everything single leg stuff which I noticed right away was something that you did.

[5:33] And it was very specialized and I think it was very very key for me because it helped strengthen all the muscles around my knees so that was a big big step in helping alleviate any knee pain because obviously I told you in the beginning with my knee problems so and then we progressed from there we I know we slowly ramped up the hiking hours and the strength component I believe in the beginning we might have been doing four days a week if I remember correctly uh leading right up until well obviously before we left to go to Everest we were at seven days a week so it obviously progressed substantially which I'm sure we'll get into but uh yeah that's where it all started that's how we where I when I started on the road to uh to Everest and then talk me through just in brief like the the actual expeditions that you kind of used as a jumping point from you know first first one up to Rainier all the way up to to Everest so what did you book yourself on what did you sort of use um talk me through that.

[6:32] Sure, absolutely. So, like I said, the first trip was Rainier, and that trip was all about learning, about getting the experience. We learned all the skills that you would think, crevasse rescue, glacier travel, et cetera, et cetera. And immediately after i got back from rainier i started researching the first thing i wanted to do was find a good program to go to next and that led me to a program that was called three peaks and the three peaks program was offered by my guiding company which i ended up using on the rest of my climbs called uh climbing the seven summits ctss and the three peaks program the big thing that appealed to me was it was in Nepal.

[7:19] It was in the Himalayas. I got to visit and trek to Everest Base Camp. I got to climb three 6,000 meter peaks all in the Everest region. And even more importantly was I got to do the trek and spend time at Everest Base Camp with the Everest Summit team for that year.

[7:39] So I got to spend two, three weeks with the Everest Summiters. And I think at the end they were all pretty sick of my questions but i i learned an awful lot uh and that trip was incredibly successful uh we climbed and summited all three peaks and that was one that trip really set me my mind and told me that i could do it or showed me that i could do it and it really gave me the confidence to keep going so after three peaks as soon as i got back from there I immediately registered for Manaslu, which is an 8,000 meter peak again back in Nepal with the same company again, CTSS. And I traveled to Manaslu in September of 2024. And that was a very big test because obviously it's an 8,000 meter peak. And that was a big qualification, I guess we'll say, for my company to say, yeah, you're good. You're good to join the Everest team the next year.

[8:38] So we did Manislu in 2024. Unfortunately, it wasn't a successful summit. It didn't go well in that regard, but I did reach 7,000 meters and my company was happy enough to let me come along to Everest the next year. So in a way, it was successful in that regard because that was the main goal was to get on the Everest team. And then in March of 2025, I traveled to Nepal again with the same company again for Everest.

[9:05] So in that period of different climbs, different lead ups, different expeditions, were there any big lessons, I suppose, minus outside of obviously the technical things you've learned, but any big lessons where you're like, you know what, I tried this, this worked really well for me, I tried this, maybe it didn't work so well for me, this needs to be tweaked.

[9:24] Like given a summary for those years, what springs to mind?

[9:29] There was an awful lot of lessons learned. So much, so many, to be honest. Again, I go back to the fact that I had no experience whatsoever in this regard whatsoever in mountaineering leading up to this. I knew how to train to get in soccer shape, fitness, but I didn't have any idea. So it was all a learning experience for me.

[9:51] Big things I learned was the hiking. I knew how many hours I could do or and the ramp up for the weight on the back during the hiking was something I really learned over time and honed in and I was really able to figure out the rest I needed because we were halfway through this we were training five six days a week and I was also adding in a few little extra things here and there on my own so I really need I could sit down on a Monday and I knew how to map out the week after a while after because I'd look at the schedule that you would give me the workouts I need to do that week and I was really able to map it out properly and get myself the proper amount of rest and again also another big learning factor was just nutrition one of the big things that I again on top of all this training where the fact was I was starting at such a high weight I knew I needed to lose weight so I also had to incorporate do all this training within a calorie deficit as well so that was another whole big component to this as well um but once i learned the strength side of things as well how important that was uh once i got to strengthen my knees and then it took away any pain on downward hiking and stuff that was a really big step along the way as well but overall i think everything that we kind of did together was a whole learning curve for me it was all starting from new you know i mean.

[11:15] Yeah, absolutely. So, I guess to follow up from that then, let's talk about like, let's hone into some of the details and the nitty gritty when we're talking about the Everest preparation. So, you know, you've been through your years, you've been doing the training, you've been sort of putting everything together, got those climbs under your belt.

[11:32] Everest is the next one in your site. So, let's kind of hone in on this. Um when you're sort of looking at okay it's time to get back in action time to get moving again what did uh how did the training start initially for you what were you what was your week looking like what did you do uh give us a rundown now sure um so i remember when i when i arrived home from manislu uh after that was in september of 2024 i had almost exactly six months and i remember me and you had a conversation and my thought process was is that there's six months left before I take off on the biggest expedition of my life what is that what is there that we haven't done or what volume haven't we not done that you can throw at me to because basically I went with the philosophy that there's nothing I can't do for six months so at that point we uh upped our training from I believe was five days a week up to seven uh one of those seven was an active recovery um but one of the big things that i really enjoyed and i think really really helped me was we went started doing extra heavy lift heavy carries uh and though i really really really found those beneficial um and also we were throwing in more high intensity uh intervals.

[12:51] We're doing some power intervals on the bike and then we were the strength picked up a little bit um but overall the big thing so we would do two strength sessions a week we would do a heavy carry uh there would be a high intensity work on the bike there would be a longer run if I remember correctly and then we'd have our active recovery day and then I'd always end up doing something a little bit extra as well like sometimes some weeks what I would do is I would take our two strength sessions because it normally would take me about 25 to 30 minutes per session and I would stack those together on a day and then that would give me another free day where i'd probably go and do an extra hike because there was always one long hike every week and we we were able to ramp those up at times which is another really good thing i really liked was how we elevated those every single training block how the times went up and then the weights would go up um but yeah overall we were at seven days a week that last six months leading into everest.

[13:52] And then over those months, and as we sort of went through block to block to block, how did those sessions sort of progress? How did everything look a little bit different as we kind of honed in towards the leave date? Yeah, so we obviously, everything progressed. Everything got a little bit more intense, a little bit longer, a little bit heavier. I remember in the end, I was doing heavy carries on the local hill. With I got worked up to 100 pounds on my back and I would take me about 25 minutes to get to the top of the hill and then my wife would be waiting here she'd drive me down and I'd go back to the top again and she'd drive me back down again so that was one big thing how it really progressed was the weight and then also the the hours on the trail really uh really amped up in the last uh last month or so before leaving and then the i found the weight the weight the strength sessions as well those progressed getting a little bit heavier a little bit more um i guess specific i guess we'll say um but yeah overall it was a really good progress from september of 2024 right up until i left it uh it really really i found that last six month block to just be phenomenal.

[15:09] I love uh i love that that you had the the support there for those heavy heavy hill climbs because it's always one of those limiting factors for those sessions that like all right i'm at the top of the hill now i've got all this weight i've either got to dump it and get back down i've got to sort of just take my time getting down but if you had the supportive partner to kind of bring you back down to the bottom that's uh that's perfect i love that that's right i was originally doing it with the water and i get to the top and empty it out and then i get to the bottom again and put new jugs back into my backpack, but it was taking so long and I had so much water in my vehicle. It got a bit cumbersome after a while, but so I was very, very lucky to have the support of my wife to help me with that for sure.

[15:52] So through the journey, were there any particular, I guess, roadblocks or challenges that sort of came up over these like sort of six month period or over the whole journey? And if so, how did you go about overcoming them?

[16:06] Sure. Yeah. Um, there was all kinds of roadblocks. There was mental roadblocks. Uh, sometimes I would not so much in that last six months, cause I was so focused, but in the block before that, let's say it was between three peaks and Manislu was almost 14 months. And that was a long time to just train and not have a trip, uh, have, have something to break that up. Um, so there was some mental roadblocks for sure sometimes I'd get kind of physically drained and or mentally tired and maybe I didn't want to train that day so that was something I really had to overcome for sure.

[16:44] One of the challenges I found as well is certainly in that last six months was balancing training life and family life because obviously I'm training seven days a week I was very strict on my diet I wouldn't didn't really want to be say going out for family dinners or whatnot and things like that and social events so it was really that was a bit of a challenge uh doing that as well and then there was just the the challenges of injury every now and then you have some kind of uh something would hurt a little bit more and then had to try and find ways to work around that and in particular i had one uh fairly substantial injury that certainly slowed me a little bit and as i remember i'll let you know right away when it took place but i had a bit of an unfortunate an incident with a trekking pole. I took a fall in January of 2025 and I ended up stabbing myself in the face with a trekking pole, believe it or not. It's such a freak accident, but I broke a bone in my face and I punctured my sinuses and that was certainly a challenge I had to overcome.

[17:49] Luckily enough, I didn't require surgery, but it certainly slowed me a little bit. But at the end, I only missed maybe a few days of training and then maybe the next couple of days after that was light training but I only really missed a few days so overall I was able to overcome that but those were the biggest things the mental the mental challenge was big and the family challenge was big for sure, So, so let's, let's talk specifics of each of those and we'll talk about the tracking pole in a second, because obviously that was the big one, but a mental side of things then. So, so when you were going through that bit of a stretch where you're like, oh my gosh, it's so far away, running into some barriers there. Can you remember anything specific that you kind of did mentally to kind of help you get over that barrier or help you with that obstacle? Or how did you actually approach that?

[18:35] What I did was I started creating little challenges for myself. And that was something I don't know if I ever even really discussed with you but what I would do is I needed something to show myself that the training was working and that I was getting progress, and so what I would do is I would come up with a challenge so the very first one I did I remember was uh well before I went to Rainier and I'd been training with you for seven eight months and I had no idea how well I was progressing. So I set a goal. What was I picked? I think it was a route of four different trails that sort of interlocked here. And I said, I'm going to do them all together one long, big day. And I did that. And that provided me the reassurance that, hey, this is working. Keep on the same right. You're on the right track. Keep going with this. And I did that a lot along the way, at least every six months or so, or even maybe a little four months I would always set some sort of challenge for myself and by accomplishing or succeeding in that challenge it gave me the positive reinforcement I needed to go for another three or four months and that was really really one of the key things for me before I went to Everest I approached my brother who's a who does a lot of like ultra marathons and stuff so he's big into fitness and we picked a very hard local trail that's a bit of a loop and I said let's try and do 10 laps. I, I'd probably only ever done two or three before. And I said, let's try and do 10.

[20:05] And we did that. We spent that day and we did it. And that again, gave me such confidence to know that the training that you were giving me was working because as much as I could see it in training, yeah, feeling a bit better in a strength session, or I felt a little bit better in my run today or the heavy carry wasn't as bad, I still needed something a bit bigger, a bit more substantial. I needed an actual challenge. And that was, I think, the number one thing I did mentally to convince myself to keep going.

[20:40] Then how about with the family and the social side of things in that last six months? So how did you go about, you know, obviously it was a challenge balancing it, but how did you manage that?

[20:54] So probably one of the bigger things I did, I'm lucky enough to be self-employed, so I have a bit more flexibility in my work schedule. I made a commitment. I did none of my hiking on the weekend. That was one big thing. I never did a long hike on the weekend. I always made sure I saved that time for home. I still train on the weekend, but I would purposely schedule a strength session, say, on a Saturday. So instead of hiking for eight or nine hours on Saturday, I was just in the gym for 30 minutes. So that was a really big key component. I was able to, I was lucky enough to be able to schedule all those long hikes for midweek while my daughter was in school and my wife was doing work. And then I found ways to uh make sure that I would do for example uh we would do a family dinner out I would try and schedule it for midweek and on the day I did a hike so it wouldn't be so bad I made sure that it all lined up so on that day when I burned a lot of extra calories doing a long hike that that was the evening that we went out to eat as a family and things like that those were those are some of the bigger things i did to try and balance that out and also we did.

[22:05] We did do some uh family vacations in that time we did still travel a bit um and during those times i just i didn't train or maybe if we did travel i would spend one hour in a day in the hotel gym but i made sure that we still did those things.

[22:26] And then let's talk about the trekking pole incident because obviously that was they said bit of a freak accident there um and i'll tell you what on my side of things i was a little bit worried when you told me that it's like oh my gosh that sounds scary so that how did you like obviously when something like this happens we can kind of go into freak out mode we're like oh my gosh you know four years worth of work you know is this the end like is this going to kind of stop me. While you're in those initial days of just getting everything figured out, how did you manage that and manage that stress or mindset or anxiety or whatever was going through your head?

[23:03] Absolutely. So it was an incredible freak accident. And the way it all kind of played out was, well, obviously it happened on the trail. And the instant that it took place, when I fell, my face, my trekking pole was sticking up out of my pack, which was laid on the trail at the time, because I was just starting at the trailhead. And I slipped and I fell and I had to physically pull the trekking pole out because it was stuck in my face immediately my first thought was oh my gosh I can't go to Everest like it was instant it was the first thing that went through my head I was instantly felt with overcome with anxiety that Everest was over it could not happen and then as I was laying on a trail I was trying to stopped the blood that was pouring out of my face. I sat up and I, first thing I remember thinking was my legs are okay. So that's a big step forward. That's a good thing.

[23:57] Um, and then by the roughly 12 hours later, when I finally spoke to a doctor, I spent a lot of time in the emergency room and getting stitched up.

[24:08] And at that point they did, they then discovered that the bone in my face was broken and.

[24:15] The puncture in the sinuses was what also caused me a lot of anxiety because at that point I had no idea how it was going to impact my cardio my running my hiking was I going to be able to breathe properly and the last thing I need is go to Everest and have breathing issues it's hard enough to breathe as it is so that all happened I believe it was on a Friday and I had an appointment to see a plastic surgeon and a specialist the following Tuesday so that weekend was a very long weekend um because had he told me that I would have needed some kind of surgery to put it all back together whatnot obviously that would have put Everest in jeopardy so I was very anxious over the weekend but I knew that I wasn't feeling too bad like uh it it didn't hurt a whole lot and I didn't I didn't have any trouble breathing over the weekend while I was just at home so on that Tuesday I met with the plastic surgeon and he told me that I didn't need surgery and the first question I asked him was well what about the sinuses and how quickly can I get back to running or and training and he told me that day that I could train that day if I wanted he said there might be you might see some swelling in your cheek because there might be some there was some play between the sinuses and the cheek itself so he said you might see a blow up a bit But he said.

[25:39] You can't do any more damage than what you've already done. So go for it.

[25:43] So I believe that day I was on the treadmill. It was very light, but I immediately did something that day. And as soon as I knew, that very first workout, it was probably just a super flat 15 minutes on a treadmill. I knew then that I wasn't going to let this get my way. I was going to be able to overcome it.

[26:04] Yeah, how good, how good. I'm so glad that it ended up working out the way that it did. So, yes, scary times there. So, obviously, we talked a little bit about, okay, through your training, you were sort of doing plenty of pack carries, building up that hiking, you were doing your strength, you had a bit of active recovery, we were doing some higher intensity stuff, and we sort of built that up over time. So outside of that more, I guess, standard training or foundational training or however you want to phrase it, what other types of things did you kind of incorporate, you know, during this period that are or hone in on to help give you an edge?

[26:41] To be honest, there was one thing that I added in. And again, I'm not sure I even spoke to you about at the time, but I added in a lot of extra running on top of the seven workouts that you prescribed for me. I did, I always did some form of any strength day. I always did some form of cardio afterwards. I always added a little bit extra. I always tried to do something a little bit extra. So there's a local trainer here at my hometown and he offered these guided runs. It's just a audio thing that he has on his website and he talks to you in your headphones while you run. And it was a phenomenal just a little just a little addition just so I do like an extra 45 minutes on top of our extra work so I always tried to do that extra little bit to try and bring me over the top and if we were doing heavy carries I'd probably sometimes I I may have added the weight a little bit faster than was prescribed but I was always trying to do a little bit extra so I felt like I was going that little extra mile to to achieve the goals.

[27:51] And then you mentioned a little bit earlier that you were diving into the nutrition side of things and put a bit of focus into that. So briefly, what types of things were you really trying to hone in on on that side of things and what were you doing there? Sure. So previous to the trip to Manislu, I was doing kind of all my nutrition on my own. I was always – I followed the philosophy of calories in, calories out. And operating in it once i learned the concept of a calorie deficit because that's something i wasn't really familiar with before once i learned that process i found that it uh the weight came off pretty quickly so just to back it up a little bit when just before i called you in 29 2021 i was almost 300 pounds but when i went to rainier i was i had lost over 80 i lost over 80 pounds to get down before I went to that first drive Rainier trip so I found that my nutrition was doing pretty good but I also found that I needed it wasn't I wasn't fueling properly I was doing great for the calorie deficit and the fat loss but I wasn't fueling properly for the training for when we stepped it up and I wasn't fueling properly for the expedition so that's when I reached out to you and you put me in touch with uh kyle from valley to peak nutrition and i engaged him.

[29:21] As soon as i got home from manislu so i noticed when i was on manislu that there were some times when i would leave in the morning from the tent and i didn't feel fueled properly i was i didn't have a proper plan so me and him sat down and we spent six months working together and we developed a comprehensive plan for food on the mountain on Everest and the best part about it was was he gave me the the tools I guess or the knowledge that I could eat more carbohydrates than I was eating and I could practice these nutrition on our hikes that you would prescribe to me so previous I would try and do a long hike but not eat a whole lot because I didn't want to go over my calories for that day but then Kyle completely switched my switched my thinking on that whole thing and then I was able to practice all of these techniques with the gels and these specific muffins that he gave to me recipes for and it really really helped that last six months when me and you really ramped up our training having him on the side there as well and helping me with the energy and the fueling, it really made a huge difference. It was such a huge help. And then when I got on Everest, it was even bigger help because I didn't run into the same problems on Everest that I did run into on Manuslu.

[30:49] So let's talk about the trip itself, then, and the Everest expedition. And do you want to give me, like, yeah, the kind of rundown? You got into Nepal. Talk me through, you know, the period of, you know, just getting up the mountain, getting up to base camp, doing acclimatization. Give me that journey. Were there any challenges you experienced, anything that felt a bit easier? Just give us the whole rundown. Okay, sure thing. So I like to break it up into basically three phases.

[31:19] Uh phase number one was the arrival in Kathmandu and the trek to base camp and then the initial prep because we did a we did a fair bit of training my guide and I at base camp before we ever ventured up the up the mountain so that first phase was phenomenal it went so much even better than I could have hoped so for the trek portion my wife and daughter came with me which was fantastic uh so my daughter who is she was eight years old at the time she did the full trek from lukla right to ever space camp and she never once slowed down she was way out in front of us the whole time she just loved it she she killed it she did so good and my wife as well she trained for it and she did so good she made it there and it was a whole family uh adventure and that trek.

[32:12] We went a bit slower because my wife and daughter were with us and we had our own little private group, just the three of us and our guide, and we went a bit slower. And I think that really helped me as well because at no point did I ever find a trek either a bit strenuous or I'd never overexerted myself. And going a little bit slower, I think, really helped solidify my initial acclimatization. So that first phase was just fantastic and then as well as part of that once at base camp my guide and I we did multiple treks up to Pomori High Camp which is a local peak right behind Everest Base Camp and it's a very popular route for people to hike up for acclimatization and I remember the first time I did that we were in as part of another big group and I kind of was looking around and wondering how am I going to fare next to all these other people that are about to head to Everest. And I remember trekking up to Pomori High Camp, and it was easy. I didn't find it that hard. I felt fantastic. And then we started to do some training in the icefall.

[33:23] And I remember the first day we went about a quarter of the way up, and I was absolutely terrified because you hear so many things and so many stories about how technical and how difficult the Kumbu Icefall is. And I remember coming back from that training session and I immediately text my wife and I said, I crushed it. I felt fantastic. So I really think our training and the way we tapered and everything, that first three weeks, I felt fantastic.

[33:54] And then my wife and daughter left and they flew back home. And that was when we started our rotations, our rotations up and down the mountain. So based on the way the weather played out, we got delayed a little bit at base camp. And so instead of our original plan of doing two shorter rotations, we ended up doing one long rotation. So we made our way from base camp uh to camp one and we spent a night uh the next day we went up as far as camp two and had lunch and came back to camp one for another night and then we made a formal move to camp two and we stayed there for roughly i believe it was six nights um and during that time, I could very quickly feel my body start to deteriorate. At Camp 2, you're at roughly 6,500 meters, if I'm not mistaken, and sleeping at that level and dealing with the crazy swings in temperature, and the food was not as good up there as well, and my appetite started to go a little bit from the time the first phase ended till the end of that rotation and.

[35:15] I was not feeling very good at all. So when it came time to the last challenge of our rotation was we had to tag camp three. And once we tagged camp three, we could then go back to base camp and rest up for summer push. And I didn't make it. The first time we, first morning we left to go for tagging camp three, I went through many sleepless nights up there and I didn't, I decided not to even attempt it. The next day I still wasn't feeling very good. I was very drained and I made it maybe three quarters of the way, maybe half of the way up to camp three.

[35:53] But they determined that I was OK. They determined that the rotation could end. So we then started to make our way down to base camp. And I knew based on the way I felt at that point, at the end of rotation, knowing that it was only maybe four or five days of rest at base camp before I had to come back up and really go for the summit. I knew I wasn't in the right place so I made the decision originally I wasn't going to but at that time I called an audible and I hooked a helicopter which brought me back to Kathmandu and I did a full fallback I went back to Kathmandu I had three nights in the hotel I rested I ate an awful lot of food I had a couple massages and I really reset I really needed that reset because the the time during the rotation of the camp two it really set me back physically and it set me back mentally I was from the first phase I was so confident I was feeling so good and then a week and a half 10 days later I was feeling so bad and so drained and I was just mentally I was kind of defeated I really needed to reset. So the three days back in Kathmandu, I immediately rebounded. I got my energy back. My appetite came roaring back, and I felt phenomenal.

[37:19] And it just so happened that uh our expedition leader was back in Kathmandu with me at the same time and he spoke to me the night the day before we were due to go back and he said there was a weather window opening and the forecast looked like uh we were at that time we were predicting a summit on May the 13th and but it meant us leaving them from Kathmandu the next morning, and that then the next night leaving to head to the summit and he asked me if I was up for that And I said, absolutely. I called my wife and I confirmed with her that everything was all good. And I spoke to my guide and made sure he was all good. But I was feeling so good after the fallback and the three days in Kathmandu, I knew I wanted to kind of piggyback off of that. I wanted to push while I was feeling good. I didn't want to go back to base camp and sit around for a couple more days and then potentially start to fall back or deteriorate again. So that's what I did. the next morning we left Kathmandu and that afternoon we were in base camp and we started packing and that night we left and headed to the summit so that night we left uh base camp uh we made it to camp one in I think it was five and a half hours which was almost an hour faster than the last time I did it so obviously my body had responded and I was I was climbing well.

[38:38] So we spent the next day and night at Camp 1, just resting, relaxing. The next morning, we made it to Camp 2. And we had a plan of one night at Camp 2 before taking off for Camp 3. And at that point, we were told that the weather window had closed. It wasn't going to work out, the original plan. So they told us they wanted us to sit and wait at Camp 2. So immediately... My mind shifted to worry again because the last time I spent extended nights at Camp 2, my body deteriorated and it didn't go well. So we spent three nights at Camp 2 instead of the planned one.

[39:21] And luckily enough, I was still feeling pretty good. So we left after three nights and we headed up for the summit. Um the move from camp two to camp three was a bit of a concern to me because the last time I tried it I didn't make it um but luckily enough I was still feeling really good uh we moved from two to three and that in half of that climb is up the Lhotse face which is incredibly steep and incredibly challenging and I felt really good when I arrived at camp three I was pretty much right in line with the suggested amount of time it was supposed to take and uh that went very very well i was very happy with my my performance so we spent that night at camp three uh we woke very early the next morning uh to head to camp four and this is when i started to i really started to find it challenging uh that morning when i woke up at camp three my appetite wasn't where it should be I didn't really want to eat I forced some food into me and I wasn't out of camp three not two hours and I kind of hit a wall I had a bit of a mental breakdown I was very emotional and I said to my guide I think this is it I think this is as high as I'm gonna go and I had a flag with me, And this flag was signed by all the kids in my daughter's third grade class. And it was very important to me that I was going to try and get it to the summit for them.

[40:48] So I asked my guide, I said, could you please pull it out of my pack? Because I'd like to get a picture right here. Because this is going to be the highest I'm going to go. And he grabbed it out of my pack and he said, no, not yet. And he put it in his pocket. He wouldn't let me have it. So he said, let's go a little bit more.

[41:04] So I went a little bit more. And then we went a little bit more. And eventually I said okay well I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna keep pushing I'm gonna keep pushing so the plan was once we left camp three the plan was to arrive at camp four by 10 a.m and then that was supposed to give us around nine to ten hours where we could rest and relax before going up to the summit I didn't arrive at camp four till 2 30 in the afternoon that's how slow it went I really really struggled but I made it so I was arrived at camp four and I was in my tent and like I said I I was five and a half hours behind schedule so I was kind of defeated at that point I felt that I didn't have enough time to recover because I knew obviously the hardest part was ahead of me, so I rested and relaxed I was able to eat I had a couple of liters of water and around 7 30 p.m was the time came and the guide said okay we're we're going to take off so my plan at that point was I'm going to leave camp four I'm going to go up a couple of hours and I'm going to take a few pictures and I'm going to turn around I'm going to come back I didn't think there was any way I was ever going to make it to the summit just because I was so tired and I was so exhausted but.

[42:25] I left. So we left camp four and headed up to the summit. It was 7.30 p.m. And it was obviously pitch black. It was super cold. It was very, very windy. Conditions were right on the line of whether or not we should go or not.

[42:43] And I started up. And the mental gymnastics I had to play with myself that night to keep myself going was just I don't know if I'd ever be able to fully explain to anybody how I did it and how I I keep saying that I was able to make sure that my mind didn't get in the way of my body and every time the negative would creep in I would be I was able to switch it to the positive and to keep moving and then something happened I got we were maybe halfway up to the balcony so a quarter of the way into the climb and the balcony is the first real landmark on your route to the summit is the first place where you can actually sit down and rest really and i we're in a bit of a line it wasn't a big traffic by any means not at all we were very lucky in that regard but there was a line of people in front of me and i noticed that these people they weren't pulling away they weren't they weren't gaining on me i was just staying right in line with them and i was like well, They're going at this pace and I'm going at this pace. I can still go. And if they're going to summit, well, why can't I?

[43:52] So I made it as far as the balcony, which I didn't think I'd ever do. And at that point, we sat and relaxed. We had some water, some more, some snacks. We changed our oxygen. And one of our guides, he basically said, he's like, well, you're halfway there. And at that point, I knew I was going to be able to do it. I was like, okay, I can do it from here. So then we headed up from the balcony towards the South Summit.

[44:21] And I just kept keeping it going over and over in my mind. There was certain songs I was singing. There was lots of people I was thinking about. There were stories I was telling myself. Every few minutes, I had to kind of change my tactic in my head to keep it positive and not negative. And then the sun started to come up and I could kind of glimpse I kind of could tell by the contours that we were about to get to the south summit and I knew if we got to the south summit there was no stopping me then and I also during this whole time I knew there was never a time when I was like questioning whether or not I was safe as exhausted as I was I was always mentally clear. I could always think straight. I knew I was not pushing beyond my limits. I knew I was still in a safe zone. So that's why I was able to keep going. But once I came up over the crest of the summit and I could look across and see the Hillary step and I could see the true summit, I was just buzzing at that point.

[45:26] So then we stopped at the South Summit and we did another oxygen bottle change. And then we headed out across the Cornish Traverse, which I've watched 8,000 YouTube videos. I've looked at a thousand photos and I've read every book about. And when I got there, it looked totally different than I ever imagined it would look. And it was so much more sketchier than I thought it was because it was so exposed on either side. But I was so mentally focused that I was, again, I never felt in danger. I was focused on every time I clipped the carabiner to the line. And so finally we made it through that section and we made it up to the top of the Hillary step. And from there, it's a pretty gentle climb to the summit. And once I finally made it to the very top, I was just so elated. I was so happy. And it was, but also I was, I only gave myself a few minutes. And then at that point I knew I had to switch. I knew I had to flick the switch and cause going up as, as optional, but coming down as mandatory as Ed Vista's like to say. So it was, it was, it was short lived, but it was well worth it.

[46:40] And what just so happened that I ended up summiting on May the 15th, which is my daughter's birthday. And I had a little Garmin inReach, which allowed me to send 30-second voice notes back home through the satellite. And I was able to sit on top of the summit of Mount Everest, and I sang Happy Birthday, and I sent that back to my daughter. And that's something I don't think her or I will ever forget.

[47:03] That is unreal, mate. Oh, my gosh. Like, went through it all. That's, you know, it's just incredible to hear, absolutely incredible to hear. So I guess coming out the other end, like once you did get down, what did you do to celebrate? Or if you were knackered, what did you do to relax? Or what were the next things you did once you actually got off the mountain?

[47:26] Yeah. So, well, just even before that part, like I always anticipated that the descent was obviously going to be difficult, but I didn't anticipate it to be that hard. So i left the left camp four and headed for the summit at 7 30 p.m and i arrived at 6 15 in the morning and it took me another 14 hours roughly to get back down to camp two at which point i was able to sleep for a couple of hours and then we had to once we left camp two then we still had to tackle the ice fall again to get back down to base camp so while i was on route from the, camp to the base camp uh my guide was in touch over in communication with base camp and they arranged for a helicopter that afternoon so when i landed at base camp i had i was able to eat uh i had a little quick celebration with the local with the staff and an hour later i was on a helicopter back to katmandu and just so happened that while i was on the helicopter my wife was back home and she was on the computer scrambling to change my commercial flight so I would I was supposed to leave a week later but I landed in Kathmandu and I had enough time to go to the hotel get a shower have a meal and immediately turn around to go back to the airport.

[48:44] And I was on a commercial flight back home that night so I summited on the fourth sorry I summited on the 15th I was back in Newfoundland I believe on the 18th I had a group of close on maybe 50 family and friends meet me at the airport which was just so incredible but I was so tired I slept pretty much the whole way from Kathmandu through Hong Kong

[49:07] and back home to Toronto and then on to Newfoundland I.

[49:10] Slept through most of every flight I was so exhausted and then when I got home it was just a whole week I didn't go right back to work when I got back I spent the whole week home in the house with family I had lots of friends come visit and then the next weekend we had a big summit party uh friends of ours restaurant and uh it was so awesome it was so incredible i gotta say i was so happy and the reception from my family and friends back home was just so incredible and it still is to this day i'm still blown away by the response but from it all and i'm just so happy the way it all went so so now this is this is done and we were sort of saying you know but the before we even started recording that you're still kind of flying high after all this and you've got so much going on but but what what do you feel like is next in the in the world of climbing is this is this it is this like the long-term goal you're like boom i've done it like you know i'm ready for a new challenge or have you got more climbing ambitions what are you kind of thinking for the future.

[50:14] As far as climbing is concerned, at the moment, I'm done. I'm done. I set out for this goal of Mount Everest, which, again, when I first set this goal or when I first started, I really think maybe I might have thought in my head, gosh, I'll work out for two weeks, I'll feel a little bit better, and I'll go right back to what I was doing. But it was almost five years of training to get me here, and at the moment, I have no desire to go climbing again. Now if that that changes in a few months maybe but that being said i do want to do something i don't want to it's funny enough that when before i started with you and down this down this this whole journey i i never ever wanted to get off the couch i didn't want to go exercise and i've been home a little over a month and a half and i've for the last two weeks i've either run or lifted weights every day which is i think one of the best parts of this whole story the fact that now i almost crave it i want to i want to exercise now i don't want to go a day without exercising, and i think that's gonna suit me so well for the rest of my life and for my health and whatnot and i have in mind maybe i kind of thinking about maybe i don't know some kind of a running adventure.

[51:34] Ultra iron man i don't know something i need i i really want to have something to shoot for at some point but as far as climbing is concerned not right now um we may do some family trekking which i think would be really good because my wife and daughter really enjoyed the base camp trek and i think we've started to loosely talk about kilimanjaro which is it'd be and obviously it's part of climbing don't get me wrong but that'd be like a family adventure so we might look at doing that in a year or so but overall right now i'm just i'm feeling good i'm i'm running and lifting weights every single day, pretty much. And yeah, I'm kind of enjoying this, not having a great big goal right now, but at some point I'm sure I'll have one.

[52:18] Yeah no that absolutely makes sense after after such a journey and uh and yeah it'll be interesting to kind of see where you like what you land on for for the future whatever may come across your way or whatever so so i guess you know it's been so good kind of diving into this and exploring this because i know a lot of people like you know who are going to be listening to this episode will be in a very similar situation to you whether they're you know eyeing off a massive thing and they're the very very start of their journey or whether they're a year or two in and they've still got a few climbs or a climb or two

[52:50] to go before the big adventure. So I guess if anyone was in a similar position where they were considering tackling Everest in a five, four, three-year plan or whatever it may be, or another climb like this, any sort of overarching words of advice you'd have for them? Absolutely.

[53:10] Do it. I'm so happy I did it. I'm so happy I put the work in. It's so well worth it. But I think what made my, what worked for me was the fact that I broke it down into such small incremental parts. I didn't just start out and say, this is it. I'm not stopping until I climb Mount Everest. You know what I mean? I, even, like I said earlier, with these little challenges I created for myself, even these little milestones in between the trips that led up to Everest, those little incremental goals that I set for myself was so crucial to reaching the whole ultimate goal. Breaking it up into smaller bite-sized pieces made the whole huge goal so much more attainable. And I think that if you just set out with the one great big goal and it can be daunting to just think about that. But if you start small and keep it small and then set these little incremental goals, I think you can be very successful.

[54:17] Fantastic. And I guess, you know, we've covered some really, really interesting stuff today. And it's been so good to kind of hear about your actual journey and your experience like on the mountain, because this is the first time we really had a proper debrief and everything as well. So I guess beyond what we've sort of covered today so far, was there anything else you'd like to add or anything else that you didn't get a chance to chat about today?

[54:42] Um i don't think so i think we've covered everything uh uh that i can think of like it's great to be able to talk out the whole trip into great detail i love it because there's i think every time i i retell the story there's a few little details that i can't remember again.

[54:57] Um but no overall i don't think so i i think if there's uh certainly if there's anybody out there listening to this who uh is uh contemplating using uh your services i would highly highly recommend because uh i don't think i i certainly would not have made to everest without you that's for sure there's without a doubt i i needed that structure i needed that the your knowledge and your guidance to because again like i didn't know what i was doing in the beginning so that was a critical critical critical component and uh well i think it's just evident that when we started together in 2021 i stuck with you right till 2025 the whole way through so i i was very very happy with the way that all went and it was so if there's anybody contemplating that they should without a doubt give you a call oh i appreciate that right but um but yeah well thank you thank you so much for coming on today like you know it's been so interesting as i said just hearing a bit more about your journey i know a lot of people are going to be super interested in hearing your words and just getting a little bit of insight into kind of all the stuff you went through in the lead up in the on the mountain and and everything like that so thank you so much for coming on mate um it's been such a pleasure having a hammer to chat and uh and yeah and really really looking forward to getting this out to the public absolutely thank you very much really appreciate it.

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