Training For 8000m Mountains - Interview With Allie Pepper

In this episode, I interview Allie Pepper, and we chat about her training and physical preparations for her upcoming expedition to conquer 8000+ mountains without additional oxygen.

Find more from Allie here:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alliepepperadventures/ 
  
  
• Free Everest Essentials Ebook: https://alessandrakate.kartra.com/page/jfp2083
  
  
• Website: https://www.alliepepper.com/

Episode Transcript: 

​[0:00] Right, hello, hello, ladies and gentlemen. So in today's episode,

[0:03] we are going to be interviewing Ali Pepper, who is an incredibly accomplished mountaineer. And we're going to be talking all about training and preparing for 8,000 meter plus mountains. Now, this episode is going to be split into two parts and essentially a two-part mini series. In part number one, we're going to be interviewing Ali and we're going to be talking a little bit about her training, her preparation, what she does through her work with Summit Strength leading into her trips, plus a few insights around climbing these big mountains and preparing for some of these hardest challenges in the world. Now, episode number two is just going to be me talking, and I'm going to be talking in a little bit more detail around the training and preparation she's doing, and talk through about her workouts, her structure, and get a little bit more in the nitty-gritty around all that side of things. So, with that being said, this is a really, really interesting interview coming up for anyone who's aspiring for those big mountains or anyone who just wants a bit of inspiration from an incredibly inspirational person. I think this is going to be amazing. So with that being said, let's get into the episode.

[1:11] All right. Welcome, welcome, Ali. Thank you so much for coming on the show. How are you today? I am great. Thank you, Rowan. Well, I'm really, really, really looking forward to having you on board because, because, yeah, I think we've been working together for quite a while and I think there's just so many interesting areas we could dive into today to share with the audience. I think it's going to be really, really useful. And, yeah, I've been really looking forward to this since we booked it in. So I guess to kick things off, to let people know who you are, do you just want to give us a rundown? Where are you from, who you are, what you do, and what is your background in mountaineering? Sure. my name is Ali Pepper and I am an Australian mountaineer. I am Australia's most accomplished female high altitude mountaineer. I have been mountaineering for 25 years now. I started in New Zealand and I have since climbed all over the world.

[2:19] I'm most famous for climbing 8,000 meter peaks. I have summited 10 of them. Well, I have 10 summits, I should say, of 8,000 meter peaks are six without oxygen and out of this the 14 summits that are over 8 000 meters i've completed seven of them including everest and k2 and my current project is to climb all 14 of the world's 8 000 meter peaks without supplemental oxygen.

[3:01] And then tell us a little bit more about the current project. So how long has it been going on for? What have you done so far? What's ahead of you? Give us a bit more detail on that. So I have summited five in the project, which started on the 15th of July in 2023. And I have nine to go. So I would like to finish the project in three years from the start date. The climbing is not being the hardest part of the project, believe it or not. As crazy as that sounds, the funding for the project has been the hardest part of the project. So in terms of finishing the project in a time frame, the funding really is the key, to be honest, and that's been the most work on the whole project.

[4:07] Yeah, absolutely. And I imagine there's a little bit of logistics that goes behind the scenes to figure all that side of things out. There's a phenomenal amount of logistics. I pretty much since I decided to take this project on, I haven't done the work that I used to do. So before the project, I was a guide and I have my own business guiding.

[4:41] Leading expeditions and also working here in Australia, guiding mountaineering courses and rock climbing and things like that. And I also used to work at a college teaching outdoor leadership, so new leaders, and I quit all of that to undertake this project. So, yeah, I sold my home to fund the first couple of years of everything. It's not just been about the climbing. It's also been about filming. It's been important to me to film as well as climb because I want to, well, have a documentary of the project to help inspire others. And that's just as important to me as it is to actually climb.

[5:39] So, let's talk a little bit about training and physical preparation. So, we've been working together for a while now. I don't know exactly how long. But let's reverse and go a little bit before that. Like, obviously, you've been mountaineering for many, many years. You know, in the past, before we started working together, what was your just overall typical approach in regards to your preparations and your training yeah so prior to working with you I didn't have a structured training plan and I'm just going to say since working with you uh I'm the strongest I've ever been so and I'm also saying that at 49 years old which is really something I've never climbed this hard or this well in my life and a lot of that is due to my training and my fitness regime and working with you so prior to then I just kind of did most of my training as if I was.

[6:53] Let me say uh I didn't know a lot about it to be honest and I tried to learn a lot about the science behind training for mountaineering and put it into practice but I really it just wasn't working I'm just gonna say that it wasn't working I was doing a lot of trail running I was a lot of carrying a heavy bag up hills. And I would say I was doing like the maximum amount of work and getting the minimum amount of gains. That would be an overall picture of what I used to do.

[7:39] And then turning that around, like, you know, since we have started working together, what types of things have changed and what are some of the things you've done a little bit differently since then?

[7:51] So, I think working with you has allowed me to get the maximum results in the minimum amount of time and with the minimum amount of effort. That that would be what I love uh you've always tailored to my situation and yeah where I am in the world as well as what I'm what I'm doing so you fit in my training around what is is accessible to me as in a gym or whatever I have around and it's just meant that I've had a consistent schedule rather than what I used to do, which was I could fit this in now and I would do something, but it wouldn't necessarily be the thing that I needed to do. So now that I have this structure, it is just, it's a lot easier to fit it into my life. I know how long it takes and I know that I'm not doing anything that's going to make me weaker. And that's the thing. I used to, I think, train too much endurance and not enough strength.

[9:14] And I would get weak and I'd also get injured.

[9:21] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that is a pretty typical thing in the world of mountaineering in the sense that the endurance stuff, it is obviously so important. There's never something you can skip and neglect. But sometimes we kind of, yeah, end up just doing that's it. And that's kind of everything else. And so, obviously, so many aspects of fitness that goes into mountaineering and finding that balance for the individual is such an important thing. So, let's hone in a little bit more and let's get a little bit more specific. And let's talk about your current project preparations. So, we'll kind of go

[9:56] through kind of how it started, how it progressed, sort of how it's all played out. So I guess to start with, since this last block, well not block, last period of training leading into this current project, what did we, what did the training start like initially when you're kind of getting back into things, getting in the swing? What did your sort of week typically look like?

[10:15] So you're going to have to remind me, but I do remember when I came back from the mountain last year, I had spent many, many, many, many, many months climbing and a lot of time at altitude and I was very weak. Uh I'd spent a lot of time that year on the mountain on expedition or traveling and I hadn't done really any workouts uh to maintain my strength and fitness so when we started back up again at the end of the season last year I think I was only able to do three workouts a week and then we gradually built it up and now I'm doing five workouts a week and yeah a huge improvement I just finished a seven hour trail run not yesterday day before and And yeah, and so my strength now I'm lifting like 60 kilos, which is a deadlift as well as, what do you call it, squats, the barbell.

[11:33] And that's pretty much back to where I was at the start of last season, the start of last year. So I've got back to that but I can tell you when I first started at the end of my last.

[11:50] Mountaineering season I was very very weak and nowhere near where I am now I would have been able to run half an hour max yeah absolutely and you were also coming off a couple of um it was a health issues after last uh last season is that right am I remembering that correctly, um the frostbite or oh yeah I had frostbite good point yeah.

[12:19] I did have right yeah in my left of my left toes uh I did have frostbite so that made it a little bit tricky for some of the exercises yeah so I wasn't running that much when I got back and I I needed to look after that, but I was sort of able to do strength. But, yeah, we got, you know, it ramped up the better I got and the, you know, fitter I got as well.

[12:48] And then over this period, as you sort of said, you know, kind of been slowly but surely like ramping up as you've been getting stronger, ramped up the sessions, ramped up the strength, and now obviously doing quite a bit of running as well.

[12:59] You know, as we always say, and I always say, you know, no training program is ever a linear journey. You know, there's always ups, always downs. So, you know, through this last sort of period, have there been any sort of

[13:12] roadblocks or challenges which has sort of come up along this way? And if so, how have you personally worked around yeah so I've had a bit of an issue with my the left side of my body I'm gonna say so I had and and it's actually also the toes that got frostbite were on the left and I had some arch pain on the left and then I've had knee pain on the left and we have been I guess like working with this over the years because it's been an ongoing type thing where I've gone to a physio and had strength exercises and worked that into the program so I have actually been doing that lately as well um but prior to you know starting this year's season I have been going to the physio I have been doing my physio stuff as well as the strength workouts with you.

[14:19] And the other thing that I've added in lately is kinesiology. So that is making sure that both sides of my brain are firing to make sure that the muscles on the left side are actually switched on. And so that has helped a lot as well.

[14:40] Yeah, interesting. And just out of curiosity, what types of things have you done through that kinesiology? What type of exercises or routines have they got you doing? Yeah, so it's pretty simple. Like it's a bit hard to describe, but it's just like a little – it's not even an exercise. It's just like a series of movements with your arms and your legs, and it takes like 30 seconds. But i do them three times in the morning i do them before i work out after i work out and then three times at the night and i've been doing them for like two three weeks now and i've pretty much got back now to strength on both sides of my body being equal uh so now i'm just starting to do them oh sorry now i'm only doing them before and after exercise to maintain it.

[15:37] Very interesting okay and and then we're obviously getting relatively close to, expedition day or you know everything goes um goes to plan then we're in the sort of final stages of this training and preparation so right now like with your current training block what you're doing can you just talk us through uh what's going into the whole week um and just give us the full rundown of the week yep so I have two strength workouts one power interval workout which I do on a stationary bike at the gym I have a long trail run and a weighted hill climb where I put water bladders in my backpack so my backpack weighs about 20 kilos and I hike up a hill for around, at the moment, around an hour 45, and dump the water and then come back down again.

[16:39] Beautiful, and for context, for anyone listening for the power intervals Ali was mentioning, basically these are some longer intervals on bike. I think at the moment we're doing about three minutes at a time with about a 90 second rest and just getting some exposure to that higher intensity stuff, but that longer duration, higher intensity, which can be quite nice at this time.

[17:02] So let's move forward and let's do a little bit of future looking. Um and obviously everything goes goes planned get out on the plane get on the expedition um talk me through kind of a rough plan of how things will look or potentially look when you're actually over there like you know when you first arrive when you're going through acclimatization when you're moving towards the summer push like how do your sort of weeks typically look well typically i know is a tricky word but how are you envisioning your weeks to look once you get over that yeah so I don't have like a contrary to like what a lot of people would um have I don't have a plan and I know this will drive like people crazy but I've been doing this for so long now that I I know my body and I and I know what I I guess like need to do to acclimatize and I actually decide because my project you know I have nine peaks left to do and in the spring season in Nepal there's only certain ones

[18:11] that that you can do in that time and I'm.

[18:16] Basically, the ones that I'm choosing will pretty much be decided when I get there, as in what's in the best condition, how are the logistics looking, all that kind of thing. So in my mind, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what mountain it is. I have the experience and the mindset to cope with not having that plan. And I know that might be difficult for people to understand, but I've trained not only my body, I've trained my mind to stay open-minded and be adaptable and resilient. So in terms of acclimatising, for me, and I think for most people, and this is where they do stuff up and go wrong, is I've got to spend time acclimatising lower down.

[19:18] And that is like the most crucial part of the whole thing.

[19:23] Once I have done the sort of lower down acclimatizing then I can move faster but if I stuff that up and try to rush it then I don't get it I don't get it back then the whole season becomes very difficult and then out of curiosity and I know everyone would be different so this is just you're looking at your own personal um situation but when you're going through that like how do you personally feel like when you feel like you've done that right and you're going through the climatization things are coming together like talk me through the differences in feelings of the body to when you've stuffed it up compared to when you're feeling like you're on the right track yeah so i don't get altitude sickness so much anymore um because i know i know like my body and how i react with altitude so i really just listen to my body like how high my heart rate um do I need to rest you know I I'm pretty used to acclimatizing now so my body does just go back into it remembers what to do and it's pretty fast for me now even if I have been off the mountain for months but.

[20:52] I will, you know, stop at a certain height and know that I'll need to sleep an extra day there because when I wake up in the morning I might have a puffy face or I'm not, you know, feeling that great. And I just go by that. That's it. Like as I move up, I'll, yeah, I'll just check in and see how I feel. Like, of course, you can use numbers and you can fixate on a pulse oximeter or whatever, but because I have done that in the past and I know what it feels like to have 85% oxygen saturation, I just have linked that to how my body reacts and how I'm feeling and I'll just stop if I need to or I'll go slower. I'll start walking slower. And yeah, so I guess like up to around 5,000 meters and then starting to sleep above 5,000 meters, I take it pretty easy.

[21:58] Once I've sort of got to the point that I'm like very happily sleeping above 5,000 that's when I start to do rotation on the mountain so I might do like most of the time I get that exposure to 5,000 meters before I even go to the mountain I do it trekking and then I'll go to the mountain and I'll start a rotation up the mountain and for me without oxygen it's better if I don't do that many rotations up the mountain because I get weaker and weaker and weaker and if you are using oxygen you can do more because when you then go to summit you put the oxygen on and you come down you know 2 000 meters or more when you depending on how high a flow you've got so it's not like you're doing a rotation to like 8 000 meters right so you can push your body um i guess like a little bit more in terms of acclimatizing but for me if i do too many rotations on the mountain and I go up high, you know, too often, I just get weak. It doesn't help me for the summer push at all.

[23:19] And then when you're going through those rotations, again, you know, this is a very individual thing, but for you personally, is there anything physically or mentally that you're making sure you're staying on top of that, you know, for you personally, look, if I do these things, it's going to help me, help me recover, help me feel good, help me prepare. Is there anything that you specifically are aiming for during that time? Oh, I have like a million things that I do. Like a million things that I do because I have so many like –.

[23:55] Routines and and things that I do to look after myself that that other people don't do but I do do so it is a little bit difficult to share but every single thing that you're doing is basically trying to expend the least amount of energy now for me I sleep really well on the mountain and that is a mental thing most of the time 99% of the time if someone isn't sleeping well on the mountain it's because they're worried or they're nervous or they're anxious or they're you know not feeling great about being there or maybe they have some symptoms because they're not acclimatized enough but most of the time it's because they're they're nervous and I don't have that so that is mental like that is mental and if you can be in control of your mind and stay focused in the now and not be thinking about the summit or what's going to happen tomorrow or X, Y, Z or blah, blah, blah, and just keep focused on the next step and having a good sleep and all of those things like drinking water.

[25:24] Eating as much as you can, looking after yourself, stopping having a break when you need to, stopping and putting sunscreen on and just basically being as, I guess, like loving to your body as you can because it can be, well, it's obviously an extreme environment. Looking after yourself is like number one.

[25:54] And then let's talk about the summit push because I know this is probably what a lot of people have been waiting for and a lot of people are curious uh on with this interview um and obviously you've got a few of these big summits um you know in in your background without oxygen so so talk me through like you know what what do you expect it obviously everything's different and every experience is different but but what do you expect it to be like when when you're up that high like how is your body going to feel when you're really pushing for the summit and what will be going through your mind, do you expect?

[26:31] So I don't think that much. You can't, like you literally cannot think that much. And that's the hardest thing to describe. Because your brain is so starved of oxygen, all you're trying to do is stay alive. And it's difficult to explain how that feels. But I'm not really thinking. And that's it. I am simply walking and I'm focused on the next step. A lot of my thoughts would be around how cold it is. What do I need to do to be warmer? Do I need to drink something? Can I eat something? Can I just ignore it and keep walking?

[27:22] The sun's coming up soon. That's it. That's all the thoughts that I can have. Before the summit push, I just make sure that everything is in perfect order. So I change out of any underlayers that are sweaty, and that's just really important because without oxygen, if you've got like a wet-ish or sweaty layer on, it's colder. So I have a whole new change of thermals and I have a very specific layering system that I need to use as well as boot heaters and a like a breathing mask because it's the air is so cold and without oxygen, you're breathing so hard and so fast. It's really difficult to stop from freezing from the inside out. So my chest is always freezing because of the air in my lungs.

[28:29] And, yeah, and basically I'm just making sure, like, I'm all good and I'm climbing with my partner, Mikael, and he has, you know, the things that he needs to carry. He's all good. And if we're climbing with another Sherpa, same for them. They're all good. they've got everything that they need and we're all okay and we just keep going that's it.

[28:59] And then let's talk through the other side of things so you've done your summit push you've gotten down feeling good well feeling okay I should probably say maybe not feeling good but you know do you do you have any any rituals routines or celebrations or anything like that that you like to do after a big expedition like this? Yep, go to bed.

[29:28] It's like not over, you know. Like once you're on the summit, the hardest part is coming back down, like 100%. It's so exhausting and it takes everything. You feel as though you give everything to get there, especially without oxygen, but coming back down is often harder because you're so, so wasted.

[30:01] So we do our best, you know, the Sherpa I'm climbing with or if I'm climbing with Mikhail, like he would just love to keep going all the way down to base camp, but I can't do it. I'm just so exhausted.

[30:17] So typically, like we sleep again at the high camp, which is always above 7,000 metres. So it's you know I still sleep that night and I just do my best to eat and then pack up and head down once I get to the base camp like and you're at a lower altitude everything changes you know like you can think again and yeah you can eat more and you can sleep really well and so So, like, yes, I celebrate.

[30:57] I don't drink alcohol, so it's not like I go nuts, but there'll be a cake, you know, there'll be a cake and a bit of a celebration, and then I just want to go to sleep. That's pretty much it. I just can't wait to be back at a hotel where I can have, like a proper bed and yeah just have downtime and and rest uh sometimes that takes a long time to get to that point because we've got to trek out like k2 that's epic and um you have to just keep demanding more and more and more of your body every single day to get out of there so yeah The celebration sometimes doesn't happen for a while.

[31:50] But it's great when it does. Yeah.

[31:57] And then I know this is a massive question. So, you know, just in brief, you didn't have to get too, too, too deep into it all. But, you know, if someone listening to this was, you know, considering a big 18,000 metre plus mountaineering adventure and they were like, you know what, this is something I've always wanted to do and kind of iron it off or something that I genuinely want to make happen in the near future. What would your advice be, you know, both in the, I guess, the logistics of building up to something like this and, you know, the physical preparation required? Yeah, so, I mean, whenever someone asks me this, I always just say, like, what have you done? Because I can't really answer the question until I know what that person has done. I have written a free e-book. It's called Everest Essentials, Your Path to the Summit. And I suggest that anyone who wants to, yeah, who wants to climb an 8,000 dart, doesn't matter if it's Everest or not, to read that because that gives you a lot of questions about where you're at now and then it'll prompt you to go, okay, well, these are the types of things that I need to do to get to where I want to go.

[33:19] And that's free, that e-book, it's free. So yeah, if you follow me on Instagram, you can just click the link in my bio and download it for free.

[33:31] So that would be the best answer for me because there's a lot of information in that. But what I want to say is, you know, if you're starting from zero, then it's going to take a few years to build up the skills and experience and going from trekking at high altitude to then doing um high altitude peaks and building up you know the height and the technical difficulty on them uh and as you do that then you'll know so that's a different conversation once you've got to the point that you have climbed uh say amada blam uh successfully and, you know, that felt, I'm not going to say easy, but easy technically for you and the altitude felt fine, so you've got to that height without oxygen, obviously, then you'd start looking to do an 8,000er. Absolutely. And I'll make sure there's a link for that e-book in the show notes below. And also Ali's Instagram as well. So anyone's interested in getting their hands on that, just scroll down the show notes and you'll be able to check it out.

[34:54] But awesome. So I feel like we covered some great areas and topics today. And in all honesty, I could kind of chat your ears off on this for a long, long time. But we'll wrap this episode up so we don't end up taking up your whole afternoon. So I guess before we finish things up, is there anything else you feel like you'd like to add? Anything else you feel like we've missed or anything else you want to add to what we chat about today? Yeah, look, I just think that a lot of people might think that they can do their own training regime.

[35:36] Uh but the thing is when you work with a coach you're accountable and even though I don't see you that often Rowan um you are with me you are with me on my journey and I if I skip a workout or I don't complete a workout or something, I'm accountable to you and I feel, well, hey, like I'm not honouring Rowan's time and expertise, you know, if I'm not taking this seriously.

[36:16] So there's a huge, huge benefit in having people on your team to support you, that know what they're doing, that you can message and say, hey, this routine isn't working for me right now. What is a better, you know, a way that will work for me that fits into my life and it's going to give me the same outcome? It's very, very difficult to do that on your own without someone who knows what they're doing an expert in your team so I just want to say you know thank you Rowan I am as strong as I am now and I am successful as I am now thanks to you.

[37:12] I appreciate that, Ali. And from my side of things, it is such a pleasure being a part of this journey and just having you on board all of this because you're such a dedicated trainer, let alone a Mountaineer. But just to see so much effort and consistency that you put into sessions, it is such a pleasure on my side of things. And I love, love, love having you part of the Summit Strength family. So, I guess if anyone listening today did want to find a little bit more about your story, follow your journey, learn a little bit about more of what you do, where is the best place for them to find you? Yeah, so they can look at my website, which is alipepper.com, or they can, or and or, they can follow me on Instagram. So I do post a lot on Instagram and as well as my Facebook page. And they are both Ali Pepper Adventures. Yeah, so I'm very regular with that. And then you'll get the live updates.

[38:24] Fantastic. Well, what I'll do is I'll make sure all of those, as well as that e-book we mentioned before, are all in the show notes below. So if anyone wants to check that out just scroll down there and you'll be able to find it all but with that being said um you know i just want to say thank you so much for coming on today ali i really really appreciate you taking the time it's been really really interesting having a bit of a chat about all this and i really do think a lot of people listening uh yeah are going to really really enjoy this episode so thank you so much um it's been fantastic oh my pleasure rowan anytime and yeah I really hope that this you know inspires people to chase their goals and do it in a yeah you know in a way that is what would I say honors the mountain because the more prepared we are mentally and physically the better it is when we get there for us and everyone around us.

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