Nutrition For Hot Weather Hiking

Today I interview Kyle from Valley To Peak nutrition about nutrition for hot weather hiking.

Inside he shares some great tips, strategies and ideas to help beat the heat on the trail!
​

​Want to find Kyle from Valley To Peak Nutrition?

Website: www.v2pnutrition.com/
Podcast: ​www.v2pnutrition.com/podcast
Instagram: ​www.instagram.com/v2pnutrition/

===
​
Listen to the Training For Trekking Podcast on:

• iTunes
• Spotify
• Libsyn
• YouTube

===

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Hello, hello. Welcome back to the show, Kyle. So great to have you on. Yeah, I appreciate you being able to put this together and have me on. I'm excited. Always enjoy talking the topic of nutrition and hiking.

[1:54] Absolutely. And it's been a little while since we've had you on, I think. But either way, it's always so great having you come on, give your real specialist and expert opinion around this nutrition for hiking subject. And it's always a great episode to be put together. So I'm really looking forward to this one. And for listeners, as a little bit of background and context who may not have listened to, I guess, one of your episodes before or across your social media, whatever it may be, do you just want to give a brief introduction around who you are, where you're from, and what you actually do?

[2:25] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Kyle Camp, I'm a dietician formally by training, but we own and operate a business called Valley to Peak Nutrition. And kind of our motto is we help people prepare for and perform optimally in the mountains or the back country or really anything outdoors. And that ranges from the trips themselves to education, to guides that we've built, and really just trying to of help people understand how the nutrition and the training piece go hand in hand and really enjoying some of these bigger adventures that they might go on. I think that's one of the cool things that I've enjoyed so much about us working together over the years is like you obviously have the same focus on the training end and the two go hand in hand. And together, we've been able to work with a lot of people that have some pretty cool adventures planned. And it's been fun to to watch those. So I live in the U S we live in the, um, in the Rocky mountain West of, of the U S. So the mountains and foothills are, you know, literally out of our back door. And we get to spend a lot of time testing and trialing some of the stuff that we put together and, uh, just, just love being able to do that and work with the folks that we do. And especially on a topic that's, you know, so, so much of a personal interest to me too.

[3:46] Um today what i'm wanting to dive into and i think it's a really really relevant one is uh nutrition for hiking in the heat or hot weather hiking um and really this has been inspired from pretty much i would say 75 of my clients who are my hikers who are over in the us just complaining about the heat recently um and when they go down their training hikes they're just like look it's so hot it's so humid they're really really struggling um and it's always that That's an extra challenge. And obviously in Australia, like right now, recording we're in the middle of winter, but, you know, sun is always around the corner and it always is, again, a trippy thing when it's a little bit hot. So I'm really looking forward to, yeah, talking in the nutrition context around certain things we may be able to do to help with these particular demands. So I guess to kick things off and dive into this subject, you know, when we're looking through in the nutrition context, because obviously that's why I'm here, what would you say the major challenges are when it comes to hot weather hiking or hiking in the heat yeah that's an excellent excellent question i think that the first place everyone's mind goes to is water right hydration because obviously when you're moving a lot and especially when you're carrying any type of load on your back you're not ventilating as well you're always going to feel hotter than usual and that that is one but I think a larger part of that really starts at something called like what we'll call temperature regulation.

[5:15] So if you, if you backtrack, like a lot of.

[5:19] A lot of times in the nutrition field, you will see folks trying to address the issue at hand without ever really trying to think about what's the cause of the issue at hand here. And so, like, for example, maybe someone's feeling low on energy, so they try to eat something immediately to get some energy back. When in reality, you want to take a step back and say, you know, where did my nutrition plan failed? Was I eating periodically along the way?

[5:48] And it than just trying to band-aid it in the moment and get something in. The same is true here. So thinking about temperature regulation, that even when the temperatures are really high, what are ways and what are things that you personally have control over to keep yourself cooler? So like a couple of examples would be wearing a sun hoodie and keeping a hood over you. And even though it might be long sleeve, it's going to wick sweat and keep you cooler rather than just being exposed in short sleeves, wearing sunglasses, taking stops in the shade. If you come across a creek and it's around the time you plan to eat, taking your shoes off, taking your socks off, dipping yourself in the creek to cool your core temperature so your body's not having to work so hard. The temperature regulation aspect of it, trying to find ways that you can control that and keep yourself cool, I think starts at number one because if you manage that, the other two or three things, which are more nutrition related, are going to require.

[6:51] Less babysitting from you. And those two to three are going to be number one, hydration. And then as a byproduct of that, you're going to have to manage your electrolyte intake as well. And then in addition to that, make sure that you're getting enough fuel. So whether that's It's, you know, any of the nutrients, carbohydrates, proteins, or fats that, Aside, it's really always important to remember that the harder you're working, the more nutrition that's going to be required from you. So that's one more thing that you're going to have to manage. But again, I'd say going back and trying to regulate the temperatures with things that you can control would be the first step.

[7:34] Absolutely. And I think, yeah, as you sort of said that, something that people so much overlook and just looking at those controllable factors, such an important thing.

[7:43] And I guess breaking down, you sort of mentioned those three things that we need to consider, or I can't remember your phrasing, but hydration, electrolytes, getting enough fuel. So looking at those three things, where do we start with each of those? And how does a hyperion begin to plan for those things with a whole other heart?

[8:03] Yep. So the hydration aspect, I think, can get really confusing because when you try to pull out recommendations from people like myself who coach or talk about this, or you try to pull out what type of recommendations like an international society of sports nutrition, like a big organization might recommend. in. They recommend a number of ounces and then they suggest it every 15 to 20 minutes. And if you've done any hiking for any significant amount of time, you know that you've already got so much on your mind that you're trying to manage between fuel and mileage and elevation and looking at maps and you don't have time to watch your watch or you don't have time to look at a clock every 15 minutes and check whether or not you're getting a specific number of ounces in. And so I think as opposed to suggesting it in, in, in ounces, it's better to look at it in terms of, um, a couple of different ways. Number one.

[9:06] Any time. Number one, be aware. Are you still sweating and are you still peeing? Because if you are not, you are very likely dehydrated and you've got a lot of catching up to do.

[9:20] If you are, is the color of your pee, is the color of your urine clear, more of a straw color of yellow, or is it really concentrated dark yellow? And you can use those as a gauge to determine Am I on par with my hydration or am I behind? The darker the color, the more behind you are, the more that you need to get in. And then I think finally setting a goal for yourself. So aiming for like if you have a three liter hydration bladder in your pack, aiming to have that completely drank from the time that you begin hiking in the morning until the time that you stop at night. And then if it's an overnight trip, you're still trying to get some additional fluid in in the evenings at camp and in the mornings at camp as well. So aiming for some sort of measurable amount to make sure that you get that in as a bare minimum each day. Now, if you're drinking only water and or it's the middle of a really warm weather hiking season and you're sweating a lot, you're going to want to also pay attention to electrolytes and making sure that you are either eating really salty snacks or you're taking an electrolyte supplement that has plenty of sodium in it. And I'll give you a number to look for in a product here later in the episode.

[10:45] But you're going to want to make sure that you're not only drinking water. Otherwise, you begin to dilute the electrolyte concentration in your blood, which has as big of a negative impact on you as dehydration does too. And then finally is the fueling component of it. anytime that you are working harder and we're talking about warmer weather, but this is true of cold weather too. If you're not dressed warm, if you're not periodically warming your core with hot fluids or hot food, your body is having to work overtime, not only to meet the demands of the mountain, but to keep your core temperature warm too. So anytime that you can provide through cold fluid or like I said, draping a cold rag that you've dipped in a creek over your head to help keep you cool, your body is having to work harder to cool you, which means you're going to have a much higher fueling demand and you're going to need to increase your calorie intake on that specific hike. So when you're looking at those three things, it's a few different adjustments that you'll have to consider as to whether or not you need to make them as well as some some specific ways to go about doing it.

[12:07] So following off the back of that, I've got a few sort of tangent questions that just sprang to mind. And I'm not sure whether these are better for later in the episode, but I want to throw them now while they're fresh from the oven. So we'll talk about electrolytes and salty snacks. And I know a lot of people, and this still is a little bit of a pervasive thing that does pop up every once in a while, is when people are talking about snacking in the heat or whatever it may be. And they're like, hey, avoid salty foods because it's going to dehydrate you. So would you mind breaking that down a little bit, just talking about salt, dehydration, hydration, and how that actually works?

[12:50] Yeah. So I think a good way to picture this is if you think about a pitcher that you have in your kitchen or a bowl or a dish or a water bottle or any sort of vessel that can hold water. And if I were to take a pinch of salt and put that in there and then have you take a drink it probably wouldn't be that salty to you in fact even if I said you know take a quarter cup of salt and pour it in a giant pitcher and have you take a sip of it it may not taste that salty but if I fill that same pitcher up with only a quarter of the amount of water that I'd used originally, and I dump that same amount of sodium in there, it's going to taste much, much, much, much saltier. The concentration in our blood and in our body tends to work the same way. When you're taking in a lot of water, but you are not replacing the sodium, you are diluting the amount of sodium that is needed for your body to function right.

[13:58] And I'm using just simple phrasing here. So you don't want to dilute it so much by drinking in tons and tons and tons of water without taking in any sodium because it can have a negative consequence. On the flip side of that, one of the most concentrated electrolytes that's lost in sweat is also sodium. So if you are constantly losing that sodium through sweat and urine, and you're drinking a lot of water, but never replacing that sodium through food or an electrolyte supplement, etc., then you are going to dip into really, really low concentrations of blood sodium. And you don't necessarily want to do that. Now, your original question was that how does it work as far as dehydration? Yes. Some people will say, hey, don't eat salty foods in the heat because the salt is going to make you dehydrated.

[14:58] It's the thing I've seen pop around a few times. Yeah. So it's not going to make you dehydrated because our thirst mechanism is largely going to be driven by that balance of fluid and electrolyte intake versus fluid and electrolyte loss. And so anytime it starts to sense that either of those are out of balance, it's going to trigger a thirst mechanism in you. So if that were to be true and or happen, which we don't typically ever see that, if it were, your thirst mechanism would trigger the desire to drink and therefore prevent dehydration. And that mechanism of being hydrated versus not is very sensitive, meaning there are hormones that will kick in and cause us to retain more water when it begins to sense that we are losing too much, right? So you almost, you're at a far greater risk not replacing it than you are by replacing it.

[16:08] Yeah. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Now, the next question kind of building off that, and again, this may be jumping ahead a little bit, but it was one that sprang to mind, is a common question I often get from people is they're talking about hydration, they're talking about electrolytes, and they're like, you know, how much should I be replenishing and this and that? And obviously you've talked about the urine colour and the simple factors there. Sometimes people ask me about the sweat tests, and they look it online and they're like, hey, you know, I'm seeing this thing where I can kind of get a sweat test and this and that to determine how much I'm sweating, how much, you know, is a sodium I lose, what the best electrolyte supplement may be for me or whatever it may be. What's your experience with sweat tests? Have you ever had any clients go through them? Do you think they're worthwhile? Do you think there's any, you know, anything that's accessible that may be accurate for people? Do you have much experience on that front? Yeah, I think that like any data –.

[17:06] Any data that we get, whether that's the information that comes back from a sweat test.

[17:13] Whether that's information that comes from a wearable device that we've got, like heart rate data or advice, or I'm sorry, data from a Garmin or Strava or whatever, that data is only as good as we know what to do with it, right? So if you're just getting a sweat test, but you're unsure of of what to do with that data, then that sweat test is not going to be very helpful to you, if that makes sense. The way that the sweat tests work is most companies will send you a kit and you'll attach... It's usually almost like a... I don't know if people are familiar with what Tagaderm is, but it's kind of like a clear band-aid, let's call it. You go, you exercise, exercise, and then you take this sticky piece off, you send it back in, and they will run an analysis on what the concentration of sodium was, how much sodium are you losing, how much electrolytes are you losing whenever you do a bout of difficult exercise. And then if you know what to do with that data, you can determine how much you should take in in an hour's time or what have you. What I think is more effective, like one of the things that we talk about all the time in our program is the difference between being practical and being optimal. Everyone wants to be really, really optimal, but sometimes that's not really, really practical.

[18:37] And I think a more practical approach, because when you're working with people, it's great to know all the data, but if you don't know how to work with someone and get them to implement that into their life in a practical sense, all the data information that you've got is useless. And from a practical standpoint, I think...

[18:56] Number one, if you exercise in the heat and you notice that you continually see rings of salt around your shirt, on your pack, on the straps of your pack, at the lumbar pad of your pack, on the brim of your hat, on the sweatband of your hat. If you're seeing rings of salt, you would be considered what we call a salty sweater. And at that point, it is good for you to consider, okay, I probably am one of these folks who fall in line with needing to take in some electrolytes on some of these harder training sessions that I'm doing. And when you go to shop for a supplement to replace these, I'll give you some guidelines on that in a little bit. But even if you don't notice that you are a really salty sweater, but you know that the temperatures are going to be really hot, you know that the exercise bout is going to be for a prolonged period of time, over 60 minutes, sometimes as many as several different hours, and you don't have any medical issues that would contraindicate your need for taking in high levels of salt. I don't think there's any reason not to take in some sort of an electrolyte supplement that has a decent amount of sodium in it on some of these harder training pushes.

[20:24] Okay, awesome. So, let's get into the mindset of a hiker who's heading out on

[20:31] the trail, whether it's a day hike or an overnight hike, whatever it may be. And they're leading up to the hike and they're like, oh my gosh, temperature's going to be hot.

[20:39] It's going to be a very, very hot hike, whether it's humid or dry or whatever it may be. Someone's leading into a hot weather what are the sort of priorities in regards to.

[20:49] Their nutrition for before they start hiking during their hiking um what should they be thinking about what should they be prioritizing and what should they be eating um yeah on the trail yeah so the the best thing that you can do the best thing you can do in a situation like this is do not start behind, meaning you need to be fairly proactive in the days leading into the start of the hike to making sure that you're getting enough hydration and electrolytes at home. And that could be, you know, that could, that could mean making sure that you're even drinking one bottle of water that has some electrolyte powder added to it, even though you're not training in the days leading into the hike. Because if you start out already low, then it's going to be really, really tough to ever catch up once you start actually moving. So that I think is key number one. Key number two before the hike is you need to have some sort of a strategy going into the hike to make sure that you've got this nutrition in your pack for the hike itself.

[21:54] And as a part of that strategy, you need to have some sort of game plan in terms of your timing. One of the things that we talk about all the time with summit folks is totals and timing. You have to know both. You have to know what you're taking in. You have to know how often you're taking it in. Otherwise you'll fall behind the eight ball. You'll fall behind on the performance end of things.

[22:20] When you're on the hike, that is the key. Execute the strategy that you've come up with before you ever left. Because if you start and you think, yeah, I'm just going to feel my way through this, there's a very high likelihood. I can't tell you how many folks I meet with that say, yeah, I had plenty of water and electrolytes. I just didn't drink it. I just didn't think about it. And, you know, I got back to the car and my bladder was still full and I felt terrible because I was dehydrated and had heat exhaustion and all these other things. And you had the remedy on your back the whole time. So you've got to have a game plan going into that hike on how you're going to execute the nutrition strategy that you've built. And then each day, like if this is a multi-day trip or it's an overnight trip or if it's a day trip, you know, I would say I would file this under the category of when you get back to the car instead of the next day. But after the hike is over, whether that's daily or a single event, make sure that you have plenty of fluids to drink when you're at home. Or if it's a multi-day trip, make sure that you're drinking in the evening.

[23:24] Nothing is worse than having to pee at 3 a.m. and getting out of your tent to go pee or to sit in, you know, if you got a bottle in your tent, like if you're on a big expedition and you're not getting out and you're actually just peeing in a Gatorade bottle or something. I understand that. But nothing sucks worse than being limited by reaching a summit because you're not drinking. So when you have the opportunity to stop and drink and there's no better time

[23:49] than in the evenings at camp, you need to be rehydrating from the day. Because again, going back to the first suggestion, if you begin the day or you begin the next hike already dehydrated, it's going to be very challenging to ever catch up.

[24:08] Then, going into that, when you're talking about, I guess, maybe making sure you're on top of it before you start doing it, is there something someone would start doing the day before, a couple of days before? What's the typical recommendation there to make sure they're just on top of all this? Yeah, I think, I mean, you'll, you'll read stuff about hyper hydration or supra hydration, which is like really trying to almost load on hydration before a big trip. I don't know that I feel like that's necessary, but I do think in the two to three days before you get ready to go on a trip, make sure that you're staying on top of, you're being aware of, you're being intentional with your hydration intake while you're at home and you have the ability to do so. So in addition to that, I would increase my carbohydrate intake as well as my sodium intake because salt, I'm sorry, water will always fall, follow carbohydrates and salt. And so if you have a decent intake of both, you're going to be in the best position possible to really make sure that your muscles have plenty of hydration leading into some sort of a big hike and you're not starting already behind.

[25:25] So i guess building off that when we're looking at a hot weather hike are there any changes in regards to you know we talked about salty foods and we've obviously just talked touched on carbohydrates um in the hydration sense um for the rest of your hiking is there any difference in regards to what we may want to be eating um compared to just a normal hike and something that's going to be significantly hotter yeah that's it that's a good question i think that.

[25:53] Like you'll you'll read information that if you are not regulating your temperature well like if your body's having trouble regulating to that heat that you'll expend more carbohydrate and thereby need more carbohydrate in your nutrition plan i think that that's probably diving into the nuances and operating a little more under theory versus like what we actually see what i think is important is that if you're planning to take some sort of a supplement meaning like an electrolyte powder that you know the differences between them and that you choose accordingly right so there's really kind of kind of four different types there's there's there's powders that have no carbohydrates and no electrolytes it's basically just like flavoring your water there are supplements that have no carbs but do have electrolytes So it's not necessarily providing you any fuel. It's not really supporting the uptake of extra water into the muscle because of restored carbohydrate intake, but it will have a lot of salt and that would be like an element product, which is a supplement.

[27:03] And then there is some that have carbohydrates, but no electrolytes or very little electrolytes, not necessarily enough electrolytes to make a big difference. And that would be like anything from Kool-Aid or lemonade or orange drink. Like here in the US, we have Tang or Country Time Lemonade. Even your average Gatorade doesn't have that much electrolyte replacement. The endurance formula does, but the typical product doesn't. And then there's the fourth type, which is my personal favorite and what I'd recommend, which is electrolyte powders that contain both carbs and electrolytes. And so you're looking for a product that's got about 300 milligrams of sodium and about 30 to 45 to 60 grams of carbohydrate per serving. And those are going to be some of the ones that are going to be the most beneficial in terms of keeping you well-fueled and well-hydrated and making sure that you really retain the water that you are taking in so you're not falling behind and getting dehydrated.

[28:12] In so i know whenever we talk about this people always always always laugh like you know recommendations are great but give me a brand do you have any specific like brands off the top of your head which may fall into that sort of fourth category which is your favorite there yeah i you know i i tend to really like tailwind uh you know you can you can get it just about anywhere they've They've got a lot of different flavors. It tends to be easy on the stomach. It tends to be not too sweet, which is one of the major complaints people tend to have about electrolyte powders that have some carbs in them is that they'll be too sweet.

[28:53] And Tailwind also meets all the suggestions I just gave on sodium and carbs. So that is the one that I will most often suggest. I, I personally, we did a, um, we did a big, a big, uh, 60 mile, uh, day hike earlier this spring. I hit some issues climbing one of the rims, uh, and tailwind really saved my tail. It was about the only thing that I could get down whenever I hit this big wave of nausea to give me some fuel. So I personally have found it to be the most effective and probably the one that I recommend most often. There are others. And if it meets the criteria on the nutrition label and you like it more and it's more affordable or whatever, it's fine. It's as good as Tailwind. But this is the one that I've just got the most experience with. And I have found that clients tend to like the best too. Yeah. So one challenge I often hear from people when they're hiking in the heat is that it gets too hot, they get uncomfortable, and they just don't want to eat. And they're like, look, my appetite didn't have anything. I could barely have lunch or this and that. And they end up just getting through the day and they just barely ate anything and completely under-fueled. So in this situation, when you're thinking of carrying hot weather, some people may have a bit of a suppressed appetite. time. What would you recommend there? Any particular strategies to work around that or any advice you might give?

[30:23] Yeah. I think number one is having that electrolyte mix with you. Because when you can't eat, you can often digest something like liquid calories and particularly liquid carbohydrate calories that aren't high in fiber and protein and other things that are hard for the body to digest. So I think that that's, that's number one, number two, and this is harder to deal with.

[30:49] Um, but you need to stop. You, you need to stop long enough to get your body to cool down because if, if, if your core temperature is too hot, that you're losing your appetite as hard and as much as you want to get to the next destination, you will eventually have to stop. And so you may as well be take the preventative measure, stop near a creek, stop near a lake, stop under a tree where there's some shade and just give your body the opportunity to really regulate itself with the temperature and then press on whenever you can. But you're going to need fuel if you want to continue on, especially on a multi-day trip. And rather than sitting there and fighting it and making it agonizing and hard and wind up in a position where you're stumbling all over the place and confused and disoriented because you're so far behind your fuel, it's better to just stop in a place and a controlled situation where you can get yourself cool, get some food in you, and then press on again. Again, as much as difficult as I know that can be to do on the trail, that is what's going to solve the issue.

[32:02] Absolutely i think that's great advice and it's such a simple thing and that yeah as you said it's going to be very difficult to put into action sometimes just mentally but um but no that makes perfect sense and then the next question i want to move on to is you know talking about multi-day hikes and specifically maybe even longer distance distance hiking and obviously when we're thinking about that and we get a lot of food going for two or three or four or five days or weeks or or whatever it may be, until you resupply. And it is all going to be hot. Are there any other sort of considerations that I guess a hiker may need to take when we're thinking about spoilage in regards to it's just going to be hotter, food's going to potentially be, you know, slightly higher risk of spoilage, any particular swaps from common things that many hikers may fall into, or any other considerations to help a hiker hit their targets and hit their needs over a multi-day hot weather hike?

[32:58] Yeah, I think number one is being cognizant of what you have in your menu, right? So you're not going to probably want to take a bunch of chocolate. You're not going to want to take a bunch of hard cheeses. You're not going to want to take a bunch of meat. You're not going to want to take some of those foods that are prone to spoil faster because it's so hot. So as a part of that, number two, while you're doing all these training hikes, you really need to be trialing your food. The worst place to find out that something in your nutrition plan doesn't work is when you're out on some big hike and some big event. And, you know, most of the folks listening to this are.

[33:41] Either in a training program or going to be doing a training program. And those are really great opportunities to trial foods that, you know, will sit well with you foods that may or may not be appetizing when it's warm outside and really try to get some, you know, some details in on what it is that you want to take and can tolerate on, on those hikes. Number three, I think, you know, be aware of what foods might have higher sodium content and you you may crave those right and so like a couple of examples that come to mind is i'll often include more fritos which are really salty chips even if they end up smashed you know it doesn't matter to me i'll eat the crumbs but something like that is always really appetizing as well as a trail mix that has something really salty in it, salted nuts, salted pretzels, and then instant mashed potatoes.

[34:40] Instant mashed potatoes can rehydrate without water. They have a higher sodium concentration than most electrolyte supplements. They are an easy to digest source of carbohydrate and they are a good source of potassium. So, you know, I call instant mashed potatoes kind of like my sleeper nutrition recommendation and most people who try them love them because you're you know i'm in the backpacking world you're so used to eating sweet stuff that sometimes it's just nice to get a break and get something kind of savory and salty and the instant mashed potato piece can can be a uh can be a huge help fantastic nice and great and let me let me put you in the the hot seat for a second just building off a couple of things you said there say i was at home and i came and sat down with you i was like oh i've got a hot weather coming up and one thing is i'm a chocolate addict like i love chocolate it's my excuse on the trail to go out and enjoy chocolate never eat it any other time i love to have it but i know that it's not going to work in the heat what would be an easy swap that you think may like just hit that kind of craving which may survive in the heat a little bit better.

[35:54] Yeah, that's a good question. What I would suggest is, and again, it might involve a little bit more work for you, but I would suggest that you consider making something that has chocolate in it, but might not be the base of it. So for example, there's these peanut butter oat bars.

[36:21] We call them bars, but we actually put them in a muffin format and then you bake them. They have dark chocolate chips in them. And so although there are dark chocolate chips in there and you get kind of a taste of chocolate, the whole thing's not chocolate and melting all over you. There's a difference between having a bunch of chocolate candies in a trail mix that basically just melt into one giant blob and having a couple of chocolate chips that are a part of a larger recipe. So you get the taste, but you don't get the meltage. passage, um, you don't get all of the melted chocolate that you would because it's not the primary ingredient, if that makes sense. So you can, you know, you, you're, you're able to still have something that you like without it, without it melting on you. The second piece I would say is like, if you know the route that you're going, we have often brought things that require cold.

[37:17] Keeping stuck them in a Ziploc bag and then we will keep them in a creek until we start hiking so that you know the creeks are snow runoff from the mountains and if you put them in the Ziploc bag there's no water getting in there we'll submerge them put a rock on top of them so they stay submerged and they're colder than being in a refrigerator and oftentimes you can stuff that in the middle of your pack and it will stay insulated by your sleeping bag and not melt on you so if you like little treats like that. Like that's another really great example of ways to take that stuff without it spoiling.

[37:52] Yeah, I like that. And then I guess like the same question on the savoury side

[37:58] of things, the hard cheese, it probably falls into me. Like I'm not allowed to have – I personally have a rule where I can't have nice cheeses in the house because it just goes crazy and I just eat it all the time. So when I'm high, it's my excuse to have a lot of cheese. So if I came to you, I was like, Kyle, I've got this high coming up. I'm really looking forward to stuffing my face in cheese. and it's maybe a bit tricky in the hot weather um what do you think might be a simple swap or another another simple solution like you talked with the chocolate yeah i think there's i think there's two you got two options here at least at least in my opinion number one which also requires a little bit of work and some resources but is well well well worth it for anyone who's interested in hiking and this is a main hobby of yours is learning how to dehydrate your own food right Right. And when you do that, you can, you know, like, let's say that you dehydrate some pasta and red sauce, bring something along that is a hard cheese, but less prone to spoilage like Parmesan, and then sprinkle that over your rehydrated meal in the evening. So you can, you know, have something that you enjoy on top of a meal that you've made at home. And there's just like a, there's like a sense of pride whenever you make your own backcountry meal and you get to enjoy it in the mountains.

[39:15] The second piece that i would say is you can pick up something called i'm not sure if like i'm not sure how easily easy you can get this in overseas but here in the u.s it's pretty readily available, nutritional yeast which has sort of those same pro with some of those same flavor profiles, as hard cheeses but you can sprinkle it over different foods so you can kind of get that effect of the taste that you enjoy without having to be worried about the spoilage that comes with cheese because cheese obviously needs to be refrigerated more times than not. And with nutritional yeast, it doesn't. It's dry and you can kind of sprinkle it over like a seasoning or a flavoring and still get the taste profile.

[40:02] Yeah, fantastic. Well, that's a couple of great ideas and I might have to give them a go myself. So, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, I feel like we covered some really, really good stuff today.

[40:13] Before we kind of start to wrap up, was there anything else in, I guess, the scheme of nutrition for hot weather hiking that we didn't get a chance to cover today, which you think may be worthwhile going into or mentioning?

[40:25] I don't. I mean, you always do a phenomenal job asking questions and questions that a lot of people want to know and questions that we tend to get a lot of from people on a specific topic. So a big kudos to you for being such a great host. I think, again, like thinking back to where we originally started from, it's easy to think about nutrition and hot weather hiking and think that the fix is going to be something nutrition related. Bring more water, bring more salt, bring more electrolyte powder. Those things are effective, but it really starts with managing your temperature. It really starts with temperature regulation. If you manage the temperature and you never get to the point of dehydration, you're never having to worry about how to fix that with a specific amount of ounces of water per hour. So you know when when you come to a creek take the couple of minutes that it requires take off your boots take off your socks let your feet cool down dip your your your gator whatever you've got in the water drape it over your neck cool down your core temperature and and managing it from that end is always going to mitigate risk that's tied to any sort of a temperature.

[41:33] Regulation type of an issue. But yes, you know, be sure that you've got enough water, be sure that you're drinking it, be sure you're eating carbs or drinking them, be sure that you're getting some sodium in and, you know, make sure that you're staying on top of that with regularity throughout the day. And you're not winding up at the end of the day with all of these resources that could have fixed an issue, but just stayed in your pack.

[41:56] Fantastic. And I guess if anyone was interested in learning a little bit more about what you do, finding out a bit more about value to be nutrition, maybe learning some of the information you share, or even working with you to help with their nutrition on their hiking adventures, where's the best place to find you? How do they get in contact? Yeah, where should people head?

[42:19] Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up. So we have our website is v2pnutrition.com and the two is the number two. So it's v2pnutrition.com. And then we've got tons of resources on there that range from different articles to a ton of different guides about how to dose your own nutrition, education on nutrition. We've got a new pack planner that allows you to really hone in your nutrition through a spreadsheet that we've built based on your weight and your intensity and your personal nutrition needs.

[42:54] We have a podcast under the same heading as Valley to Peak Nutrition that's on most podcast platforms. And so like you, and one of the reasons I just love your stuff so much and enjoy working with you and consulting with you with the folks at Summit is, I think for us, we both have the same desire, which is just to help people learn. And understand how to train how to learn about nutrition so that they can really make the most of these trips that for many of them will be like a lifetime trip and that's really what we have tried to build everything around is just giving people as many resources as possible that help them learn about what they need so these these trips aren't just like lifetime but they're memorable and enjoyable fantastic well well what i'll do then is i will in the show notes below for anyone listening to this. I'll pop in Kyle's website, maybe another link or two, and people can check it all out. But, yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on again, Kyle. It's always such a pleasure having you, and you always share such great ideas and great information around these topics. I'm really sure plenty of people listening to this are going to get some really good use of it. And hopefully this helps a few people in the Northern Hemisphere get through their summer, and then for us Aussies, hopefully get through the the upcoming summer in a few months so um so thank you so much for coming on i really really appreciate it thank you roan thanks for having me.
​